...> more involved than the 5-6 lines of introspection code. I understand how to do it in SML ...take a lot of common sense to see that introspection really does interfere with optimizations. I agree with ...programs that are very computational intensive: in those case introspection could be turned off with a compiler switch, but by default introspection should be turned on. I am an exponent ...

....karvonen@cs.helsinki.fi> wrote: ... An interesting point of view, but I am still convinced that one can have *both* abstraction and efficiency without loosing introspection and interactivity, as Common Lisp shows. Common Lisp gives fairly good performance, good enough for many uses, but I must challenge you to transliterate my vector arithmetic example to ...

... Jon Harrop <use...@jdh30.plus.com> wrote: michele.simion...@gmail.com wrote: Introspection can be very useful and is the right tool for many jobs and, ... ASTs _prior_ to batch compilation. A macro facility has nothing to do with introspection: does OCaml have introspection or not? The problems you described are easily solved using macros in OCaml. F# is far more ...

... <vesa.karvonen@cs.helsinki.fi> wrote: ... An interesting point of view, but I am still convinced that one can have *both* abstraction and efficiency without loosing introspection and interactivity, as Common Lisp shows. Common Lisp gives fairly good performance, good enough for many uses, but I must challenge you to transliterate my vector arithmetic example to ...

...the-ultimate.org/node/219 . Introspection also interferes with control flow...is an example. Suppose the introspection facility provides the ability to...something to cater for the introspection facility to make it possible...common sense to see that introspection really does interfere with optimizations...abstraction and efficiency without loosing introspection and interactivity, as Common Lisp...

michele.simionato@gmail.com <michele.simionato@gmail.com> wrote: [...] A macro facility has nothing to do with introspection: does OCaml have introspection or not? No, it does not. -Vesa Karvonen

... Jon Harrop <use...@jdh30.plus.com> wrote: michele.simion...@gmail.com wrote: Introspection can be very useful and is the right tool for many jobs and, as... its ASTs _prior_ to batch compilation. A macro facility has nothing to do with introspection: does OCaml have introspection or not? F# is far more advanced and more useful because it carries relevant information at run-time,...

... wrote: I just noted that introspection *alone* is not sufficient. Most ...the disadvantages of run-time introspection, not docstrings. I'm certainly...these "disadvantages of run-time introspection" exist, that is just FUD...I hinted earlier, run-time introspection makes it much harder to...perform effective data representation optimizations. Introspection also interferes with control flow...

michele.simionato@gmail.com wrote: An interesting point of view, but I am still convinced that one can have *both* abstraction and efficiency without loosing introspection and interactivity, as Common Lisp shows. Common Lisp often nothing like as fast as ML and, therefore, does not show that. However, I agree that there is no reason why an ML couldn't provide all of these features as...

michele.simionato@gmail.com wrote: I am not sure about what to do with introspection in SML. Introspection can be very useful and is the right tool for many jobs and, as you have discovered, is basically completely absent from SML. I would say that your options are basically OCaml or F#. OCaml has a macro system that makes it easy to extend the syntax of the language (e.g. with test ...