Trying to do a trip out today.

Kirk Sandall (near Doncaster) to Cleethorpes, arriving at Cleethorpes
before 9am and leaving at 6pm or after. 2 adults and 2 children. Using
http://ojp1.nationalrail.co.uk/en/pj/fa?uniqueId=9135697 (First pick
on a google search for 'railway timetable'.
is £45.30 return.

Didn't think this _too_ bad, but then in red bold letters "Please be
aware, you may need to buy separate tickets for this journey, as a
through ticket may not be available. If you don't want to travel via
this route, click 'Restart journey' at the bottom of the page and try
again." with no details of where I'd need to change, or indeed if I
actually need to change trains.

What does that mean?

Is it me? Am I simply being thick? It would seem that to travel on a
train you need fairly detailed knowledge beforehand.

By the way, this is a serious post, we _are_ trying to go to Cleethorpes
today, but tbh I reckon we'll be better by car. If I were starting the
journey from home I shudder to think what we'd have to do.

Public transport is not the ideal way of getting from the middle of
nowhere to the back of beyond. This is the case anywhere in the world.
You'll find that even in Switzerland, which has an integrated
transport system, travelling outside larger population centers is
tedious by PT.

I think you'll find that all those things are handled by different
companies who don't feel it's their responsibility to co-operate with
each other.

"Cambrasa" wrote in message
news:1193397536.482743.239460@o38g2000hse.googlegroups.com...

Hence the need for a single unifying authority (maybe Network Rail, maybe
someone independent even of them) which coordinates the work of all the TOCs
and "persuades" them (by force if they won't do it voluntarily) to
coordinate their timetables, ticketing and booking details, both within the
TOC and between TOCs.

It is the lack of overall direction, working for the *passenger*, which is
the reason that privatisation has not been as much of a success as it could
have been. The problem is not privatisation itself, it's the fragmentation
and the opportunities for demarcation disputes that were a side effect of
privatisation. If the whole of BR had been privatised as a single company,
things could have been different.

Maybe, maybe not. State monopolies are bad enough. Private monopolies
are even worse. Look what happened when BAA was privatised as a single
company. Now London's airports are all overcrowded and rated as the
worst in the developed world, all while the BAA is making record
profits. Yet the BAA is reluctant to invest to improve the situation.
Why should it? Londoners have no choice but to use its shoddy
airports.

On the other hand, the German rail system was privatised as a single
company, and this was a success. But don't forget that a) The German
government keeps a large a large proportion of the shares b) The
German rail system was already top notch before privatisation and c)
Track improvement is still responsibility of the state.

Knowing this country, a single company railway privatisation would
have looked more like the BAA model than the German model... it would
have been worse. Now we have Virgin Trains at least.

In Japan the Shinkansen system is fragmented just like in the UK, and
yet it runs like clockwork.

I think the problem is more complex than a question of fragmentation.

Cambrasa wrote:

Cleethorpes (and Great Grimsby) is a larger population centre.
Kirk Sandall is next to the Cleethorpes - Leeds rail line.
It is hard to imagine anyone wanting to travel between the two by rail
without going via Scunthorpe.

You seem to be suggesting that rail is poin^w useless in Lincolnshire.

Dogpoop wrote:

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 04:18:56 -0700, Cambrasa
wrote:

Before privatisation they told us quite explicitly that wouldn't
happen.

DG

Derek Geldard wrote:

Brimstone yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Joyce Whitchurch wrote:

LOL, we did this, there isn't a ticket office on Kirk Sandall station.
Didn't pay to get to Cleethorpes, paid on way back, about £18 altogether!

Each way took about 1 1/2 hours.