Cynic wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 11:28:28 GMT, Palindrome
privacy.net> wrote:
> >> They aren't, of course, mutually exclusive. However, in terms of benefit
>> to humanity as a whole, a pound can achieve rather more when spent one
>> way and not the other.
>
> In appearance at least.
>
>> For example, clearing and planting steep hillsides is an unfortunate
>> necessity in some countries. The rains come and the soil ends up in the
>> river - in such quantities that it is visible from space. So the
>> villagers have to clear yet more hillside.
>>
>> Now add some sacks, a bit of expertise and a lot of (free) labour. The
>> sacks and the expertise have to be paid for - and that is where overseas
>> donations are vital. The result is stabilised hillsides that will
>> provide crops for generation after generation.
>
> No. Typically it will work for a year or two at best unless you have
> an active conservationist department visiting the villages on a
> constant basis and *enforcing* the technique. It is so much less
> effort to plough furrows up and down the hill rather than along
> contours that the idea is soon abandoned if nobody is watching. I'm
> afraid that I've BTDTGTTS.
>
> It needs a change in *outlook* on the part of the whole community.
> And that doesn't happen by giving away a few sacks and a few lessons.
>
>> Now, tell me how £2000 can make such a difference to the planet, let
>> alone thousands of people's lives, that the *positive* result is visible
>>from space? You won't achieve that with £2000 spent in the UK.
>
> The erosion has been visible of satellite photos for many decades.
> I'd like to see evidence that the erosion is in fact being halted to
> any significant extent. At least the story that the whites took all
> the good land and left the blacks with the infertile parts has not
> been repeated recently AFAIK.
>
>> Yes, I have been there. I have even been standing in the field as the
>> sacks were filled and put into place, under the direction of a colleague
>> - the paid expert. I was working on another project, training trainers
>> who would then go and train others. I wouldn't have been there either,
>> but for the donations of people in the UK and DFID.
>
> And did you return 3 years later to see whether it was still being
> done? Because the most important aspect of all this aid stuff is
> *followup*. Which is also usually completely neglected. People will
> try to please the weird foreigners who are behaving irrationally by
> giving stuff away by doing what they ask while they are there. But
> will usually revert to the easiest, traditional methods as soon as
> they are not being watched.
>
I suspect that you are reminiscing over things that you saw decades ago.
The most important thing is not follow-up. It is education. These
aren't projects imposed on the local populace by "foreigners", they are
projects initiated by local collectives with the full commitment of
local people. They then present those projects to regional/national
bodies for approval. Those bodies then go to NGOs for assistance for the
projects that they consider most deserving. Charities don't simmply turn
up looking for something "good to do".
Believe me (or not, your choice as always) - the local population are
very, very committed to these projects. The local population had changed
their own outlook, long before these sorts of projects started. These
are villages with schools. They send people off to college. Some of
their children go to university. They tend not to come back - but that
is a different problem. The population know what they want because,
usually, it was their idea to have it. They know what goes on in other
valleys, even other countries.
The evidence that these erosion control projects are working? Look for
Les Cayes on Google Earth. Just to the West is a river - follow that up
towards Camp Perin to see the damage that had been caused. Now follow it
to the sea. If you want to know what it used to look like, look at the
Amazon outfall, today. Find some historical satellite images of a decade
back, if you want. I've seen the difference and the difference is still
there.
These projects work long-term because they have been designed to work
long-term. The bags are put where they are because of extensive
surveying and computer modelling - not some do-gooder arriving with a
bright idea.
--
Sue
