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Date: Apr 24, 2008 01:28
Bio-ethanol use has been steadily increasing by approximately 10%% per year
over recent year and over the last year food prices have changed
dramatically:
Milk +16.7%%
Pasta +81.1%%
quite substantial increases there, pasta even smashes the huge increase in
fuels. Before Doug starts jumping up and down trying to claim vindication
neither milk nor pasta are impacted by the production of bio-ethanol (though
it is now possible to use fat from condemned animals to produce bio-diesel)
so as bio-ethanol is produced from fermentation of plant sugars lets take a
look at that - 11.2%% so it's not that the foodstuffs are being used to make
bio-fuels at all and those who say otherwise fail to have a grip on reality
or are simply trying to cover there own failings (politicians).
--
Member of D.N.A.
National Dyslexics Association
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Author: BoltarBoltar Date: Apr 24, 2008 01:41
On Apr 24, 9:28 am, "Depresion" < 127.0.0.1> wrote: > it is now possible to use fat from condemned animals to produce bio-diesel)
> so as bio-ethanol is produced from fermentation of plant sugars lets take a
> look at that - 11.2%% so it's not that the foodstuffs are being used to make
> bio-fuels at all and those who say otherwise fail to have a grip on reality
> or are simply trying to cover there own failings (politicians).
Apparently ethanol can be reasonably easily produced from certain
types of grasses which require little to no fertilizer to grow and
don't require prime arable land to grow on either. Why these arn't
being used in this country is anyones guess. Wrong climate perhaps.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7175397.stm
B2003
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Date: Apr 24, 2008 02:58
Boltar yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Apparently ethanol can be reasonably easily produced from certain
> types of grasses which require little to no fertilizer to grow and
> don't require prime arable land to grow on either. Why these arn't
> being used in this country is anyones guess. Wrong climate perhaps.
Reading have a bus fleet running on bio ethanol because it is cleaner
than diesel. I approve of this use because diesel-engiend buses make the
streets of many cities hell as they cough out particulate-laden,
carcinogenic smoke "in the common good".
The manager of the bus company was interviewed on TV recently and was
attacked by the interviewer who seemed to have been trained in the
"Duhng Bollocks" school of knee-jerk reaction to the term bio-ethanol.
The manager politely explained that the bio-ethanol they use is created
exclusively in the UK, not imported, and that it uses waste as a
feedstock. They use mostly the waste from sugar beet beet refining to
get a secondary product. So they don't need to have a crop planted just
to create fuel, they are making better use of existing resources.
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Author: DougDoug Date: Apr 24, 2008 03:41
On 24 Apr, 10:58, %%ste...@ malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote: > Boltar yahoo.co.uk> wrote:>> Apparently ethanol can be reasonably easily produced from certain
>> types of grasses which require little to no fertilizer to grow and
>> don't require prime arable land to grow on either. Why these arn't
>> being used in this country is anyones guess. Wrong climate perhaps.
>
> Reading have a bus fleet running on bio ethanol because it is cleaner
> than diesel. I approve of this use because diesel-engiend buses make the
> streets of many cities hell as they cough out particulate-laden,
> carcinogenic smoke "in the common good".
>
> The manager of the bus company was interviewed on TV recently and was
> attacked by the interviewer who seemed to have been trained in the
> "Duhng Bollocks" school of knee-jerk reaction to the term bio-ethanol.
> The manager politely explained that the bio-ethanol they use is created
> exclusively in the UK, not imported, and that it uses waste as a
> feedstock. They use mostly the waste from sugar beet beet refining to
> get a secondary product. So they don't need to have a crop planted just
> to create fuel, they are making better use of existing resources. ...
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Author: BrimstoneBrimstone Date: Apr 24, 2008 03:46
Doug wrote:
> On 24 Apr, 10:58, %%ste...@ malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote: >> Boltar yahoo.co.uk> wrote:>>> Apparently ethanol can be reasonably easily produced from certain
>>> types of grasses which require little to no fertilizer to grow and
>>> don't require prime arable land to grow on either. Why these arn't
>>> being used in this country is anyones guess. Wrong climate perhaps.
>>
>> Reading have a bus fleet running on bio ethanol because it is cleaner
>> than diesel. I approve of this use because diesel-engiend buses make
>> the streets of many cities hell as they cough out particulate-laden,
>> carcinogenic smoke "in the common good".
>>
>> The manager of the bus company was interviewed on TV recently and was
>> attacked by the interviewer who seemed to have been trained in the
>> "Duhng Bollocks" school of knee-jerk reaction to the term
>> bio-ethanol. The manager politely explained that the bio-ethanol
>> they use is created exclusively in the UK, not imported, and that it
>> uses waste as a feedstock. They use mostly the waste from sugar beet
>> beet refining to get a secondary product. So they don't need to have ...
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Author: BoltarBoltar Date: Apr 24, 2008 03:47
On Apr 24, 10:58 am, %%ste...@ malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote: > Reading have a bus fleet running on bio ethanol because it is cleaner
> than diesel. I approve of this use because diesel-engiend buses make the
> streets of many cities hell as they cough out particulate-laden,
> carcinogenic smoke "in the common good".
Yeah , diesel engines are pretty awful devices. Their only saving
grace is they produce slightly less CO2 per km than a petrol engine of
the same capacity. For every other pollutant they're a nightmare , not
least particulates, Even new diesel engines can't seem to help
belching out black fumes under heavy load. The only reason they
produce anything close to reasonable power and torque is that they
have dustbin sized turbos bolted onto them (or in the case of buses,
trucks, locomotives etc they also have an immense capacity). Put the
same turbo on a petrol engine and watch it leave the diesel for dead.
> exclusively in the UK, not imported, and that it uses waste as a
> feedstock. They use mostly the waste from sugar beet beet refining to
> get a secondary product. So they don't need to have a crop planted just
> to create fuel, they are making better use of existing resources.
Seems like a good setup.
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Author: ConorConor Date: Apr 24, 2008 03:59
> So you admit to being a biofuel apologist now, for future reference?
>
Are you aware that ethanol can be extracted from old car tyres?
--
Conor
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams
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Author: conkersackconkersack Date: Apr 24, 2008 04:13
On 24 Apr, 09:41, Boltar yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Apparently ethanol can be reasonably easily produced from certain
> types of grasses which require little to no fertilizer to grow and
> don't require prime arable land to grow on either. Why these arn't
> being used in this country is anyones guess. Wrong climate perhaps.
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7175397.stm
>
> B2003
Yes, this is a process referred to as cellulosic ethanol - the ethanol
is produced directly from the cellulose (i.e. fibre) of any plant. The
ethanol is produced by enzymes digesting the cellulose directly. It is
only (relatively) small scale at the minute due to the cost of
producing the enzymes in huge quantities. But boffins are working on
genetically modifying various biological 'things' (I'd imagine it's
bacteria they'd be tinkering with) to incorperate the particular
traits of these ethonol enzymes so that mass production of a suitable
'thing' would be possible.
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Author: conkersackconkersack Date: Apr 24, 2008 04:17
On 24 Apr, 11:41, Doug riseup.net> wrote:
> So you admit to being a biofuel apologist now, for future reference?
You make that sound like a bad thing. Bio-fuels are a very good
thing. Not that you'd know - it appears from over a decade of usenet
postings that your scientific knowledge of any given subject is
garnered from which ever persuasive ignoramus has taken your fancy. So
come on Doug, put up or shut up, to use one of your favourite past
phrases, why shouldn't bio-fuels be used? Extra points will be awarded
if you managed to reference cellulosic bio-fuels without getting hold
of the wrong end of the stick.
One last question on this post: Could you let me know what category of
fuels a log fire comes under please.
Oh, and finally, as I have said before: I am absolutely in favour of
bio-fuels.
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Author: conkersackconkersack Date: Apr 24, 2008 04:23
On 24 Apr, 11:59, Conor hotmail.com> wrote:
> Are you aware that ethanol can be extracted from old car tyres?
>
> --
> Conor
Indeed, any old discarded plastic or stuff made from processed oil can
be converted into useful fuel by a process called pyrolyzation -
esentially an analogue of charcoal production (I think coal can be
processed in the same way - hence Thatchers idea of closing down the
coal fields when NS oil was discovered as quite prudent for the future
of the country (but not the miners)). Risking the invocation of
Godwin's law, the Nazi's famously used this to produce diesel from old
rubber when their access to middle east oil had been cut off.
But I wouldn't have thought, judging from his posting history, that
Doug truly appreciates the need for various forms of stored chemical
potential energy in relation to a society's needs.
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