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Author: Paul ScottPaul Scott Date: Feb 13, 2008 05:40
One of the regularly aspects of the new stock order is that the Class 378s
will be owned directly by TfL, not leased from a Rosco like most mainline
stock; this line has been taken by most of the rail mags and other sources.
However the latest TfL 'board papers' include the following:
"Overground Train lease deal
On 20 December the operating lease for the new rolling stock fleet for the
London Overground was completed. The transaction, approved by the TfL
Board in June 2007, removes the assets from TfL's balance sheet. As a
consequence, the lease frees up
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Author: Lüko WillmsLüko Willms Date: Feb 13, 2008 06:43
Am Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:40:38 UTC, schrieb "Paul Scott"
btinternet.com> auf uk.railway :
> On 20 December the operating lease for the new rolling stock fleet for the
> London Overground was completed. The transaction, approved by the TfL
> Board in June 2007,
question is, who is the leaser? Is it TfL or is it LOROL?
Curious,
L.W.
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Author: Mizter TMizter T Date: Feb 13, 2008 07:58
On 13 Feb, 13:40, "Paul Scott" btinternet.com> wrote:> One of the regularly aspects of the new stock order is that the Class 378s
> will be owned directly by TfL, not leased from a Rosco like most mainline
> stock; this line has been taken by most of the rail mags and other sources.
>
> However the latest TfL 'board papers' include the following:
>
> "Overground Train lease deal
> On 20 December the operating lease for the new rolling stock fleet for the
> London Overground was completed. The transaction, approved by the TfL
> Board in June 2007, removes the assets from TfL's balance sheet. As a
> consequence, the lease frees up £250 million of balance sheet capacity for
> reinvestment on other projects.
> -------
> The lease runs to 2027. On expiry, TfL has the option to acquire the trains,
> to enter into a follow-on lease or to hand back the trains to the lessor
> (without any exposure to the residual value of the trains at that point).
> This provides TfL with additional flexibility that did not exist prior to
> signature of the lease - if TfL had wished to sell the trains at that point
> it would have been exposed to risk of the market value at that time." ...
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Author: PhilDPhilD Date: Feb 13, 2008 07:59
On 13 Feb, 14:43, "Lüko Willms" wrote:
> question is, who is the leaser? Is it TfL or is it LOROL?
If TfL is concerned about the assets appearing on its balance sheet,
that suggests to me that it will be TfL leasing the stock.
PhilD
--
<><
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Author: Mizter TMizter T Date: Feb 13, 2008 07:59
On 13 Feb, 14:43, "Lüko Willms" wrote:
> Am Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:40:38 UTC, schrieb "Paul Scott"
> btinternet.com> auf uk.railway :
>>> On 20 December the operating lease for the new rolling stock fleet for the
>> London Overground was completed. The transaction, approved by the TfL
>> Board in June 2007,
>
> question is, who is the leaser? Is it TfL or is it LOROL?
>
> Curious,
> L.W.
TfL.
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Author: Neil WilliamsNeil Williams Date: Feb 13, 2008 12:22
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:58:28 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
gmail.com> wrote:
> it seems like a sensible change.
Only in the sense that it'll cost them more overall. That doesn't
strike me as sensible in the slightest, just a typical piece of
modern-day short-termism.
Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.
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Author: Mr ThantMr Thant Date: Feb 13, 2008 12:58
> Only in the sense that it'll cost them more overall. That doesn't
> strike me as sensible in the slightest, just a typical piece of
> modern-day short-termism.
The bit Paul left out addresses that:
"Additionally, the effective cost of finance
(approximately at London Interbank Offer Rate, LIBOR) compares
favourably
with other sources of funding used by TfL in the past - e.g.
borrowings from
the European Investment Bank or a capital markets bond issue."
What alternative are you suggesting would be cheaper?
U
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Author: Mizter TMizter T Date: Feb 13, 2008 13:02
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:58:28 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
>
> gmail.com> wrote:>> it seems like a sensible change.
>
> Only in the sense that it'll cost them more overall. That doesn't
> strike me as sensible in the slightest, just a typical piece of
> modern-day short-termism.
>
> Neil
>
Well, perhaps it's sensible within the constricts of how TfL operates,
not least since such financial manoeuvring is now the way of the
world.
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Author: Paul CorfieldPaul Corfield Date: Feb 13, 2008 13:17
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:02:43 -0800 (PST), Mizter T gmail.com>
wrote:
>One could develop this further - the recent "global credit crunch"
>could have led TfL to believe they're going to have a harder time
>borrowing money in the future, so instead they've cashed in the £250
>million and now have it to spend on other things - and there are a
>great many other projects that are yearning for that cash, perhaps
>particularly so in the context of the strain that Crossrail will put
>on TfL's finances.
This latter point about TfL's budget overall is the key point. There are
massive pressures post 2010 despite the recently announced government
settlement. Anything that can free up cash is sensible in that context.
Not so sure about the global credit crunch - TfL generally has a very
good rating in terms of its debt and overall financial management. There
is usually a report on this in the TfL Board Papers.
--
Paul C
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Author: Lüko WillmsLüko Willms Date: Feb 13, 2008 13:50
Am Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:58:28 UTC, schrieb Mizter T
gmail.com> auf uk.railway :
> I would strongly expect that TfL is leasing them from the manufacturer
> Bombardier, and no Rosco will be involved.
Your expectation was not strong enough:
------- quote -------------
31 January 2008
ANGEL TRAINS ORDERS "GREEN TRAINS" FOR THE UK RAIL MARKET
Angel Trains has placed a major order for Class 172 cars from
Bombardier Transportation's next generation 'Green Trains' for London
Overground Rail Operations Limited (LOROL) and Chiltern Railways. The
contract, worth approximately 33 million GBP, is for eight 2-car next
generation diesel multiple units for use on the London Overground
network and four 2-car units for Chiltern Railways.
----------- unquote ---------
Cheers,
L.W.
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