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Author: Mizter TMizter T Date: Jan 17, 2008 09:15
On 17 Jan, 16:44, "Peter Masson" privacy.net> wrote:> "Boltar" yahoo.co.uk> wrote
>>>> and when ELLX gets to Highbury & Islington the NLL tracks will be AC
> between
>>> Dalston and Camden Road, and the new NLL trains will run on AC all the
> way
>>> from Stratford to Acton.
>
>> Will the 3rd rail be lifted then?
>
> The whole lot will probably have to be relaid anyway, to provide 4 platforms
> at Canonbury and Highbury, and 4 tracks on the current 3-track section. I
> can't see the juice rail surviving all that (except on the ELLX lines
> between Dalston Junction and Highbury & Islington, as the ELLX will be an
> entirely DC operation, and its trains, though in other respects essentially
> the same as the new trains for the NLL, will be DC only).
>
> P...
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Author: Peter MassonPeter Masson Date: Jan 17, 2008 09:27
"Mizter T" gmail.com> wrote>
> Obviously under the arrangement for the ELLX up to Highbury &
> Islington that has become apparent lately there's no need for the ELLX
> rolling stock to have AC equipment, but I was under the impression
> that all the new class 378 Electrostar trains for London Overground
> were all ordered as dual system (i.e. AC & DC) stock - am I wrong in
> thinking this, or has the order subsequently been amended?
November 2007 MR stated 'TfL has ordered 20x4-car Electrostars for the ELL
(plus 108 vehicles for the NLL and Euston - Watford DC). The ELL units will
be DC trains, although they will have provision for AC to be provided at a
later date if necessary".
Peter
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Author: AndyAndy Date: Jan 17, 2008 09:31
On Jan 17, 5:15 pm, Mizter T gmail.com> wrote:> On 17 Jan, 16:44, "Peter Masson" privacy.net> wrote:
>
>
>>> "Boltar" yahoo.co.uk> wrote>
>>>> and when ELLX gets to Highbury & Islington the NLL tracks will be AC
>> between
>>>> Dalston and Camden Road, and the new NLL trains will run on AC all the
>> way
>>>> from Stratford to Acton.
>
>>> Will the 3rd rail be lifted then?
>
>> The whole lot will probably have to be relaid anyway, to provide 4 platforms
>> at Canonbury and Highbury, and 4 tracks on the current 3-track section. I
>> can't see the juice rail surviving all that (except on the ELLX lines
>> between Dalston Junction and Highbury & Islington, as the ELLX will be an
>> entirely DC operation, and its trains, though in other respects essentially ...
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Author: John BJohn B Date: Jan 17, 2008 09:42
On 17 Jan, 17:15, Mizter T gmail.com> wrote:> Obviously under the arrangement for the ELLX up to Highbury &
> Islington that has become apparent lately there's no need for the ELLX
> rolling stock to have AC equipment, but I was under the impression
> that all the new class 378 Electrostar trains for London Overground
> were all ordered as dual system (i.e. AC & DC) stock - am I wrong in
> thinking this, or has the order subsequently been amended?
You're wrong, I think: TfL's original press release mentions that the
NLL ones would be dual-voltage (and hence implies that the ELL ones
wouldn't be):
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/3534.aspx
Of course, the ELL ones will have pantograph spaces and will be
electronically capable of AC/DC operation, like all new 3rd rail
stock.
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Author: D7666D7666 Date: Jan 17, 2008 11:07
On Jan 17, 9:42 am, John B johnband.org> wrote:
>
> Of course, the ELL ones will have pantograph spaces and will be
> electronically capable of AC/DC operation, like all new 3rd rail
> stock.
Indeed, this is a key point for all present generation EMU.
Although in the general case of all types (i.e. beyond the 378s being
discussed above) it might be more than just a pantograph tp be added -
some existing classes would need - or might need in future if ordered
without - a transformer to be needed as well.
But yes power electronics are already capable.
--
Nick
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Author: Dazz285Dazz285 Date: Jan 17, 2008 11:22
On 17 Jan, 19:07, D7666 hotmail.com> wrote:> On Jan 17, 9:42 am, John B johnband.org> wrote:
>
>
>>> Of course, the ELL ones will have pantograph spaces and will be
>> electronically capable of AC/DC operation, like all new 3rd rail
>> stock.
>
> Indeed, this is a key point for all present generation EMU.
>
> Although in the general case of all types (i.e. beyond the 378s being
> discussed above) it might be more than just a pantograph tp be added -
> some existing classes would need - or might need in future if ordered
> without - a transformer to be needed as well.
>
> But yes power electronics are already capable.
>
> --
> Nick ...
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Author: Tom AndersonTom Anderson Date: Jan 17, 2008 11:55
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, D7666 wrote:
> On Jan 17, 9:42 am, John B johnband.org> wrote:
>>> Of course, the ELL ones will have pantograph spaces and will be
>> electronically capable of AC/DC operation, like all new 3rd rail stock.
>
> Indeed, this is a key point for all present generation EMU.
>
> Although in the general case of all types (i.e. beyond the 378s being
> discussed above) it might be more than just a pantograph tp be added -
> some existing classes would need - or might need in future if ordered
> without - a transformer to be needed as well.
And a rectifier, i assume. Or do modern DC trains work by inverting the DC
into a low-voltage AC at the same frequency as an OHLE supply and using
that to work a motor?
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Author: MIGMIG Date: Jan 17, 2008 12:06
On Jan 17, 7:55 pm, Tom Anderson wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, D7666 wrote:
>> On Jan 17, 9:42 am, John B johnband.org> wrote:>
>>> Of course, the ELL ones will have pantograph spaces and will be
>>> electronically capable of AC/DC operation, like all new 3rd rail stock.
>
>> Indeed, this is a key point for all present generation EMU.
>
>> Although in the general case of all types (i.e. beyond the 378s being
>> discussed above) it might be more than just a pantograph tp be added -
>> some existing classes would need - or might need in future if ordered
>> without - a transformer to be needed as well.
>
> And a rectifier, i assume. Or do modern DC trains work by inverting the DC
> into a low-voltage AC at the same frequency as an OHLE supply and using
> that to work a motor?
>
> You say 'some' - does that mean there are trains which have a transformer
> but no pantograph? It makes sense to build a system to which the AC bits ...
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Author: AndyAndy Date: Jan 17, 2008 12:32
On Jan 17, 7:55 pm, Tom Anderson wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, D7666 wrote:
>> On Jan 17, 9:42 am, John B johnband.org> wrote:>
>>> Of course, the ELL ones will have pantograph spaces and will be
>>> electronically capable of AC/DC operation, like all new 3rd rail stock.
>
>> Indeed, this is a key point for all present generation EMU.
>
>> Although in the general case of all types (i.e. beyond the 378s being
>> discussed above) it might be more than just a pantograph tp be added -
>> some existing classes would need - or might need in future if ordered
>> without - a transformer to be needed as well.
>
> And a rectifier, i assume. Or do modern DC trains work by inverting the DC
> into a low-voltage AC at the same frequency as an OHLE supply and using
>...
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Author: Mr ThantMr Thant Date: Jan 17, 2008 12:52
On 17 Jan, 20:32, Andy gmail.com> wrote:> Modern EMUs use three phase traction motors and both AC and DC line
> voltages need to be converted for the three phase power electronics.
My understanding is that when you have three-phase AC motors, all
power sources (AC, DC and diesel) are converted to DC at some point,
before being fed into the electronics that create the three-phase for
the motors. So in theory they should all be interchangeable, but I
doubt it's that simple.
U
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