Re: ELLX phase 2
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Re: ELLX phase 2         


Author: THC
Date: Jan 21, 2008 10:25

On 20 Jan, 20:12, Mr Thant googlemail.com>
wrote:
> Pure rumour says the plan involves the Hayes branch.

It's more than a rumour, as confirmed by Bakerloo line GM Kevin Bootle
to Modern Railways in November 2007 (p87). He said that "extending
the line to Hayes remains a live proposition for the longer term".

THC
20 Comments
Re: ELLX phase 2         


Author: Tom Anderson
Date: Jan 21, 2008 11:50

On Mon, 21 Jan 2008, THC wrote:
> On 20 Jan, 20:12, Mr Thant googlemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Pure rumour says the plan involves the Hayes branch.
>
> It's more than a rumour, as confirmed by Bakerloo line GM Kevin Bootle
> to Modern Railways in November 2007 (p87). He said that "extending the
> line to Hayes remains a live proposition for the longer term".

Which is completely meaningless, since 'live proposition' means everything
from 'we're oiling the TBMs now' to 'a work experience student once had a
look at a map and thought it might be doable'. The only way it could stop
being a live proposition would be if a rift valley opened up in Peckham.

tom

--
History is about battles, great men, gory executions and wigs. That is
all. -- The Richelieu Association
no comments
Re: ELLX phase 2         


Author: Paul Scott
Date: Jan 21, 2008 12:08

Tom Anderson wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2008, THC wrote:
>
>> On 20 Jan, 20:12, Mr Thant googlemail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Pure rumour says the plan involves the Hayes branch.
>>
>> It's more than a rumour, as confirmed by Bakerloo line GM Kevin
>> Bootle to Modern Railways in November 2007 (p87). He said that
>> "extending the line to Hayes remains a live proposition for the
>> longer term".
>
> Which is completely meaningless, since 'live proposition' means
> everything from 'we're oiling the TBMs now' to 'a work experience
> student once had a look at a map and thought it might be doable'. The
> only way it could stop being a live proposition would be if a rift
> valley opened up in Peckham.

That could make a cut and cover extension more straightforward? :-)
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Re: ELLX phase 2         


Author: Jamie Thompson
Date: Jan 21, 2008 13:14

I was looking at the South London options for developing the network
the other day, and it seems to me that the Hayes branch is pretty much
the only option for the DLR, so it should probably go to that, with
the Bakerloo going elsewhere, though going through Lewisham is
probably still a good idea. It'd be a bit unbalanced though, so
extending the Stratford branch up the Lee valley or taking over some
of the metro services of the GEML might prove beneficial....and if it
all gets too busy for a DLR-style service...it can always be upgraded;
after all, the hard work comes from securing the basic alignments.
no comments
Re: ELLX phase 2         


Author: Tom Anderson
Date: Jan 21, 2008 16:37

On Mon, 21 Jan 2008, Jamie Thompson wrote:
> I was looking at the South London options for developing the network
> the other day, and it seems to me that the Hayes branch is pretty much
> the only option for the DLR, so it should probably go to that, with
> the Bakerloo going elsewhere,

A better option for the DLR is not to go any further at all. The DLR is an
excellent short-distance transport system, but it's too slow and
low-capacity to be a sensible thing to send great distances. It's a bus on
steroids (or a tram on a pie and mash diet), not a substitute for a real
railway.
> though going through Lewisham is probably still a good idea. It'd be a
> bit unbalanced though, so extending the Stratford branch up the Lee
> valley or taking over some of the metro services of the GEML might prove
> beneficial....and if it all gets too busy for a DLR-style service...it
> can always be upgraded; after all, the hard work comes from securing the
> basic alignments.
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Re: ELLX phase 2         


Author: unrealpolitik
Date: Jan 22, 2008 01:29

On 22 Jan, 00:37, Tom Anderson wrote:
>
> My current favourite implausible scheme involves somehow (magic?) putting
> tunnels in in the City that let Metropolitan (and District?) trains which
> currently terminate at Aldgate (or Tower Hill) carry on to the east,
> perhaps Canary Wharf, Lewisham and points south.
>

One that comes up about every 18 months in these parts is sending the
Metropolitan line from Liverpool Street, through Aldgate East and
Shadwell to New Cross and beyond.

Then someone always pops up and points that two trains can't pass on
that curve without doing severe damage to each other's paintwork, and
the whole thing gets forgotten.

Jonn
no comments
Re: ELLX phase 2         


Author: Mwmbwls
Date: Jan 22, 2008 02:18

On Jan 21, 9:14 pm, Jamie Thompson gmail.com> wrote:
> I was looking at the South London options for developing the network
> the other day, and it seems to me that the Hayes branch is pretty much
> the only option for the DLR, so it should probably go to that, with
> the Bakerloo going elsewhere, though going through Lewisham is
> probably still a good idea.

I am not sure that the DLR would offer sufficient capacity down the
Hayes corridor - the South of London RUS is now proposing 6 twelve car
trains per hour in the peak. Plans for the original Fleet line...
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Re: ELLX phase 2         


Author: Mizter T
Date: Jan 22, 2008 03:01

On 22 Jan, 09:29, unrealpoli...@gmail.com wrote:
> On 22 Jan, 00:37, Tom Anderson wrote:
>
>
>
>> My current favourite implausible scheme involves somehow (magic?) putting
>> tunnels in in the City that let Metropolitan (and District?) trains which
>> currently terminate at Aldgate (or Tower Hill) carry on to the east,
>> perhaps Canary Wharf, Lewisham and points south.
>
> One that comes up about every 18 months in these parts is sending the
> Metropolitan line from Liverpool Street, through Aldgate East and
> Shadwell to New Cross and beyond.
>
> Then someone always pops up and points that two trains can't pass on
> that curve without doing severe damage to each other's paintwork, and
> the whole thing gets forgotten.
>
> Jonn
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Re: ELLX phase 2         


Author: Mizter T
Date: Jan 22, 2008 03:12

On 22 Jan, 00:37, Tom Anderson wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2008, Jamie Thompson wrote:
>> I was looking at the South London options for developing the network
>> the other day, and it seems to me that the Hayes branch is pretty much
>> the only option for the DLR, so it should probably go to that, with
>> the Bakerloo going elsewhere,
>
> A better option for the DLR is not to go any further at all. The DLR is an
> excellent short-distance transport system, but it's too slow and
> low-capacity to be a sensible thing to send great distances. It's a bus on
> steroids (or a tram on a pie and mash diet), not a substitute for a real
> railway.

I have to broadly agree with you on that one - taking the DLR all the
way to Hayes seems improbable. Also, bear in mind that the DLR model
involves there being many more stations, which would increase journey
time quite significantly - that's unlikely to please many Hayes line
users. Plus, even if it were more frequent, could even a three car DLR
train provide equivalent capacity to the existing service.
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Re: ELLX phase 2         


Author: Jamie Thompson
Date: Jan 22, 2008 04:49

On 22 Jan, 11:12, Mizter T gmail.com> wrote:
> On 22 Jan, 00:37, Tom Anderson wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 21 Jan 2008, Jamie Thompson wrote:
>>> I was looking at the South London options for developing the network
>>> the other day, and it seems to me that the Hayes branch is pretty much
>>> the only option for the DLR, so it should probably go to that, with
>>> the Bakerloo going elsewhere,
>
>> A better option for the DLR is not to go any further at all. The DLR is an
>> excellent short-distance transport system, but it's too slow and
>> low-capacity to be a sensible thing to send great distances. It's a bus on
>> steroids (or a tram on a pie and mash diet), not a substitute for a real
>> railway.
>
> I have to broadly agree with you on that one - taking the DLR all the
> way to Hayes seems improbable. Also, bear in mind that the DLR model
> involves there being many more stations, which would increase journey
> time quite significantly - that's unlikely to please many Hayes line
> users. Plus, even if it were more frequent, could even a three car DLR ...
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