Autocar designs a new Routemaster
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Autocar designs a new Routemaster         


Author: Mizter T
Date: Dec 19, 2007 09:50

I found this story earlier on the BBC News website:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7149722.stm

Autocar magazine (somewhat bizarrely) asked bus design company Capoco
Design (which designed the the Dennis Dart and Trident amongst others)
to come up with a concept design for a new Routemaster-type bus. It's
hardly a spectacularly original idea, but it's interesting
nonetheless.

When I first read the BBC story (above) I scoffed somewhat, not least
because Boris Johnson (the Tory candidate in the forthcoming Mayoral
elections in May) declared it was "the shape of the future" - so my
instant prejudice was to be highly sceptical! However, the full
article has now been put up on the Autocar website, and it's less
ridiculous than I first though - you can read it for yourself here:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/229691/
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27 Comments
Re: Autocar designs a new Routemaster         


Author: bowroaduk
Date: Dec 19, 2007 10:50

Correct, TFL actually means "Transport ForLorn" or "Totally F****
London".
no comments
Re: Autocar designs a new Routemaster         


Author: Boltar
Date: Dec 19, 2007 12:29

On 19 Dec, 17:50, Mizter T gmail.com> wrote:
> clueless incompetent. Perhaps 'Bozzer' has been wiley to attach
> himself to the idea of re-introducing the Routemaster - even if all he
> says is that he'll look into the idea, it associates him with the
> popular Routemaster in the minds of the public. Whether the Honourable
> Member for Henley actually has any real, substantive handle on
> London's immensely complex transport issues is perhaps another matter.

Won't happen. Even if the disabilty taliban can be mollified the
powers that be are still scared stiff of the health and safety issues
of having an open exit at the back. Its all swings and roundabouts but
we'll have to wait for the current spineless emasculated pillocks who
seem to run the country to retire before something like the
routemaster can come back. Some bullets in the back of the heads of
some ambulance chasing lawyers would help too.

B2003
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Re: Autocar designs a new Routemaster         


Author: Paul Corfield
Date: Dec 19, 2007 13:24

On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:50:22 -0800 (PST), Mizter T gmail.com>
wrote:
>I found this story earlier on the BBC News website:
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7149722.stm
>
>
>Autocar magazine (somewhat bizarrely) asked bus design company Capoco
>Design (which designed the the Dennis Dart and Trident amongst others)
>to come up with a concept design for a new Routemaster-type bus. It's
>hardly a spectacularly original idea, but it's interesting
>nonetheless.

I reckon they just went at looked at old designs that attempted to
update the Routemaster and added a twist of current design "flair" to
make it look suitable for current tastes. It doesn't look a million
miles away from one design I glanced at today when I was leafing through
the updated Routemaster book by Ken Blacker.
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Re: Autocar designs a new Routemaster         


Author: Dr J R Stockton
Date: Dec 19, 2007 13:08

In uk.transport.london message g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:50:22, Mizter T
gmail.com> posted:
>
>Autocar magazine (somewhat bizarrely) asked
>...

Was it not Autocar that did road-tests on outré vehicles for the
Christmas number? I recall reading, some while ago, a test of a (1 HP)
brewer's dray. As I recall, they said that it was reluctant to start on
cold mornings, but never completely refused; and that the exhaust
emissions in the first mile were terrible.

It would be nice to read it again; is it on the Web?

--
© John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v4.00 MIME. ©
Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.
For more on our news hierarchy news:uk.*, see newsgroups news:uk.answers and
news:uk.net.news.*, and <URL:http://www.usenet.org.uk/>.
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Re: Autocar designs a new Routemaster         


Author: Mystery Flyer
Date: Dec 20, 2007 00:35

Paul Corfield wrote:
> If the extent of the political debate about London's
> transport network is going to be "Son of Routemaster - good or bad?"
> then we might as well shut up shop. There are literally hundreds of
> more important transport issues that deserve discussion and debate so
> the voters can understand what the candidates stand for.

Amen to that!

mf
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Re: Autocar designs a new Routemaster         


Author: Tim Roll-Pickering
Date: Dec 20, 2007 07:41

Mizter T wrote:
> is guilty of subscribing to the
> orthodox media opinion when she claims that London's "bendy-
> busses" (sic) are "loathed and problematic" - the opinion of Londoners
> on these buses is by no-means universally hostile as is often
> portrayed in the press (though I certainly know a few non-transport
> enthusiast normal people who detest them, but many more who find them
> quite acceptable).

It's quite possible that opinions vary given the actual bendy bus people are
likely to use. The number 25 serves QMUL (and also my home) and I'm hard
pressed to think of *anyone* with a good word to say about bendy buses in
general.
> And of course there is the fact that these would be two-man buses,
> requiring a conductor. As great as conductors may be, that is a very
> significant expense - London's bus network is already subsidised, so
> unless the subsidy is increased there would have to be cut backs
> elsewhere. If the network was less frequent, less comprehensive or
> more expensive to the passenger in terms of fares, then ridership
> would be likely fall.
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Re: Autocar designs a new Routemaster         


Author: Tim Roll-Pickering
Date: Dec 20, 2007 07:54

Paul Corfield wrote:
> And for me that's the issue. I like Routemasters but their time is
> gone. I cannot see for a moment how hundreds of millions could be spent
> on reviving an old bus design.

Well there's the cost issue that's true, but the basic problem is the
Routemaster has several features that a) are not duplicated on the
replacement buses, particularly the ability to jump off between stops, open
platform that prevents it from getting too hot inside and onboard staff who
gave reassurance; and b) have been incorporated into road and bus stop
planning - e.g. the Liverpool Street to Tottenham bendy that takes forever
because of the over frequent bus stops that were placed for Routemasters or
the narrows built into roads that bendies have problems navigating.

What could address some of these problems would be more flexibility on the
part of drivers and/or the training - e.g. allowing passengers to be able to
escape the buses when on a scorching day they're stuck in traffic only 200
metres from the bus stop. It's these kind of things that make people want
the Routemaster back. Yes there's nostalgia for the bus but if the modern
buses were doing as good a job at meeting passenger requirements then demand
for the return would be less.
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Re: Autocar designs a new Routemaster         


Author: Tom Anderson
Date: Dec 20, 2007 11:46

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
> Mizter T wrote:
>
>> is guilty of subscribing to the orthodox media opinion when she claims
>> that London's "bendy- busses" (sic) are "loathed and problematic" - the
>> opinion of Londoners on these buses is by no-means universally hostile
>> as is often portrayed in the press (though I certainly know a few
>> non-transport enthusiast normal people who detest them, but many more
>> who find them quite acceptable).
>
> It's quite possible that opinions vary given the actual bendy bus people
> are likely to use. The number 25 serves QMUL (and also my home) and I'm
> hard pressed to think of *anyone* with a good word to say about bendy
> buses in general.

A quick online quiz of my friends (not all native english speakers, i
should mention) yielded the following comments:

"they are rubbish, I hate them. i prefer the one with the double floor"

"dodge fare heaven...!!! Route 29 Rules..!!!!"
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Re: Autocar designs a new Routemaster         


Author: Colin McKenzie
Date: Dec 20, 2007 13:49

For the operator, the advantages of an RM are:
- light weight
- conductor can deter vandalism

Passenger advantages are
- hop on, hop off
- generally a better view out
- more seats

On weight, low-floor double-deckers weigh as much as 1.5 RMs. Bendies
weigh more than two.

A light wheelchair-accessible bus would be an environmental winner,
reducing fuel and road maintenance costs.

The cost of a conductor could be covered by reduced fuel and
maintenance costs - including reduced vandalism repair on the bus.

Also the presence of a conductor would have some effect in encouraging
fare-paying passengers late at night.

So it's entirely possible that a bus with a conductor could be more
economical to run overall - especially if fuel costs go up a lot.

Colin McKenzie
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