>
> "ZB" hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:69b89nF31dsh5U1@mid.individual.net...

>>
>> "FishSupper" sea.com> wrote in message
>> news:7ICdnTHSyLYn_63VnZ2dnUVZ8hednZ2d@bt.com...

>>>
>>> "Paddy" ninespam.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:d5XXj.16634$ie5.11120@newsfe05.ams2...

>>>> ...for dragging Scottish football right through the mud, yet again !!
>>>>
>>>> A disgrace on the field, and a disgrace off the field.
>>>>
>>>> I am ashamed to be Scottish.

>>>
>>> How exactly did Rangers drag scottish football through the mud - by
>>> qualifying for the UEFA cup final and securing enough coefficient points
>>> to practically guarantee CL football for the Scottish champions for a
>>> few years to come?
>>>
>>> Sounds to me like you are unable to differentiate between Rangers FC,
>>> the 199,000 decent fans and the couple of hundred thugs who disgraced
>>> their club and country. Sounds to me like it's all just 'Rangers' to
>>> you - which is a very childish way to look at things.

>>
>> It was a lot more than a couple of hundred thugs mate. It was more like
>> between one and two thousand.

>
> The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle and is not helped by
> claims that the violence was happening 'all over the city' - it wasn't, it
> was in a couple of localised hot spots.
>
>

>> I don't think the actions of Rangers "fans" should be attributed to
>> Scotland. However, if you read the English newspaper reports, letters
>> columns and listen to the phone-ins on stations like 5live, it seems to
>> me that many English people *are* tarring all Scots with the same brush.

>
> There's a growing anti-Scottish sentiment in England tied in to the
> decline in the fortunes of the Labour party and the shit spewed out by the
> right-wing press about the supposed subsidising of Scotland by the
> English. (FACT: Scotland with North Sea oil is the second biggest
> contributor to the UK exchequer. Without NS oil, we're 4th. Source: Oxford
> University dept of economics - but that's by the by). And the day we
> listen to the English criticising us about football hooligans is the day I
> wear a green and white scarf. They have killed, maimed and destroyed their
> way across Europe for decades and they DARE to point fingers at us?
>
> In any event, they have been waiting to launch into us for some time now
> and Manchester gives them the perfect opportunity. They, like the majority
> of celtic fans if this newsgroup and the phone ins are anything to go by,
> have their own agendas and are more than happy to indulge in
> knicker-wetting finger pointing and ignore the fact that of the
> 150-200,000 - the biggest single movement of people for one event since
> World War II - there were a few hundred drunken troublemakers, some of
> whom were travelling casuals from elsewhere.
>
> I'm not trying to say that the great majority of the troublemakers weren't
> Rangers 'fans', - they were - but it would be naive to think that the
> football casuals wouldn't turn up to an event like this. I suspect that
> the 'main events' of the evening were planned by the casuals from rangers
> and elsewhere but that the great majority of the violence was executed by
> the footsoldier neds in Rangers colours.
>

>> I don't think it is helpful either for Celtic fans to point score over
>> what happened or for Rangers supporters, management and media to brush
>> this under the carpet as nothing to do with Rangers. The line being spun
>> constantly is that these are not Rangers fans (even though there were
>> many wearing Rangers gear), they were not even Scottish (even though
>> there are plenty of Scottish accents present on the videos) and it was
>> only 200 people (even though that is not possible given the widespread
>> damage that occured).
>>
>> I would rather spend our energies working out what we can do to kick
>> these scumbags out of football for good.

>
> Although Rangers FC have been working very hard for some time to get rid
> of this problem, progress has been slow and it's time now to get serious.
>
> Rangers is identified as being part of this 'Blues Brothers' coalition of
> unionist/loyalist right wingers and this is what RFC has to work to
> eradicate. I would introduce the following 7 measures.
>
> 1. Stop all the Dambuster, Land of Hope and Glory shit blaring out of the
> loudspeakers.
> 2. No flags of any kind (Israel, Ulster etc) other than the saltire &
> union jack to be flown inside Ibrox and no articles of clothing with
> political/sectarian slogans to be admitted into the stadium.
> 3. Any supporters bus which is identified as carrying these flags singing
> prohibited songs on the way to, at or going home from the match to have
> their tickets withdrawn. The entire bus.
> 4. Any fan found without a ticket at future European away games to have
> their season ticket withdrawn and Rangers to publicly and unequivocably
> demand that supporters without tickets do not travel.
> 5. Murray and the Rangers board should come out and clearly disassociate
> themselves from the political mischief makers.
> 6. Publish the names and photographs of all those convicted of violence in
> Manchester in the local and national press.
>
> And here's number 7.
>
> 7. Bearing in mind how sickened we all are by the cunts in Manchester,
> Murray should come out and apologise publicly on behalf of Rangers FC to
> the city of Mnachester, UEFA and to the fans of Celtic, Aberdeen, Hearts
> and all the other clubs in Scotland and to the Tartan Army for the
> behaviour of rangers 'fans' in Manchester.
>
> That scum shamed Scotland worldwide and it's time for some Mea Culpa from
> Rangers - and never mind that RFC wasn't directly responsible. The result
> will be humiliation on the part of the entire Rangers support and,
> properly channelled, this humiliation can be turned against the bigots for
> being the cause of it.
>
> I think there is an opportunity now for a sea-change at Ibrox. The 99%%
> whould behaved themselves at Manchester are the same 99%% who make up the
> crowd at Ibrox and everybody I know is totally sickened by having the club
> and themselves tarred with that brush - so christ knows what it's like for
> the rest of you.
>
> The simple fact of the matter is that Rangers is a magnet for that type of
> sectarian, fascist scum.
> The problem is that RFC has consistantly looked at the extent of the
> problem and underestimated the depth of the problem.
> The extent of the problem is very small in comparison to the size of the
> rangers support, which is utterly massive.
> However, the depth of the problem is very deep indeed, i.e these cunts are
> here and here to stay because they have nowhere else to go - and they
> aren't just going to give up and change their lifestyles because Murray
> introduces family friendly policies and seating areas at Ibrox and
> prohibits the singing of the Billy Boys.
>
> Rangers made an estimated