> "Angof"
yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:7K6dnfZKcfJaOTPVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@posted.plusnet...>>> "Angof"
yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:5Kednc4DCaadvTDVnZ2dnUVZ8jSdnZ2d@posted.plusnet...>>>>> Listening in to the real radio phone in and couldn't believe some of
>>>>> the
>>>>> callers. Basically it was a similar debate to one that crops up here
>>>>> lots
>>>>> of times. Scottish or British?
>>>>>
>>>>> The jist of the calls was certain fans (aye right i wonder who) would
>>>>> boo
>>>>> the NI national anthem coz its God Save The Queen. Then lots of people
>>>>> trying to claim we are British coz it says British on our passports,
>>>>> Birth Certificates and Driving licences.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally i am Scottish and only hold British versions of above coz i
>>>>> can't get Scottish versions of them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, the reason i am posting is to ask, do you consider yourself
>>>>> Scottish or British? And if available, would you get Scottish versions
>>>>> of
>>>>> passports, birth certificates or driving licences?
>>>>
>>>> You are missing out a large group, those that are at ease with being
>>>> both Scottish and British. It doesn't have to be either or.
>>>
>>> Are you Scottish Angof?
>>
>> I consider myself Scottish but I am British really. I was born in
>> Wales, as you know, but my father, (who travelled for his work), returned
>> to Glasgow when I was very young. TBH though I've come to realise my
>> Scotishness is mostly driven by sport and I have come to believe more and
>> more that all this petty internal tribalism is a bit silly really. It
>> has been shown that the indigenous population of this country are
>> basically the same people that were here before those illegal immigrants
>> the Scots and English arrived. ;)
>
> I'm gradually ploughing through a really interesting book just now by
> Norman Davies called The Isles. It talks of the integration of these
> islands and how there are many similarities in our origins and how many
> diverse people have populated these islands. Including iirc Continental
> hunter gather migrants when 'England' and 'France' had a land lock, the
> Celts, Romans, Germanics and Norse. We really are islands populated by
> intra and inter island immigrants whether in the last century or last ten
> thousand years. It also talks about the view that the Scots were
> originally sea fairing people from Ireland, associated with Dalriada.
> Before Scots was a small kingdom based in Perthshire, but the Picts,
> Britons and Germanics were assimilated. Also, which may interest you since
> it's your birth place, Wales has strong Celtic connections with Ireland.
> But sounds like you travelled alot: Wales, Scotland and now England.
England? Wash your mouth out, I'm in Cornwall. :) I have lived in England
proper though.
>
> wiki says "In Davies's view, the whole idea of Britishness was an
> 18th-19th century myth created in order to justify English rule over the
> neighbouring 'Celtic' peoples such as the Scots, the Irish and the Welsh."
You could equally say it was a Norman elite rule over England Scotland and
Wales. Also...I think it's a bit of a fallacy to suggest the Scots have
somehow been subdued when they have played such a large part in the British
project. England is really a Celtic country BT, at least it's people are to
a large extent. Recent genetic studies have shown that although much of
Britain became 'England', it was not a case of a different race/tribe/people
sweeping across the country and displacing the Britons. The Saxons for
example make up less than 10%% of the population from that point of view.
Same with the Norman Conquest, there was no real change to the people who
make up the bulk of the population of these islands.
> So far I've found the book suggests the historical connections between
> Scotland, Ireland, Wales and England, and the rest of the world, are a
> whole lot more complicated that we might first think.
>
There is a general ignorance about our history as we saw in the thread about
St Patrick ;) It amuses me is how little many English and Scots know about
the origins of the countries and how they are kind of portrayed as ancient
entities.
I've come more and more to the conclusion that this internal nationalism is
a bit sad and in reality little more than petty tribalism (which we are all
prone to). It makes sense for these Island to be one political entity IMO.
That's not to say that the UK should remain as it is.
