> DenBowan wrote:
>>> DenBowan wrote:
>>>>> DenBowan wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You may remember when we discussed this previously you went to
>>>>>>> great lengths
>>>>>>> to say it wasn't a racially agrivated murder.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not convinced it was.
>>>>>
>>>>> I read the murder was a response to a racial slur one of the scum
>>>>> received the previous day. They randomly found a white kid and
>>>>> tortured and killed him.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps. I read that too, but have also heard some conflicting
>>>> stories. But we depend on what we hear or read. Only the
>>>> perpetrators and perhaps the victim, know for sure.
>>>
>>> Well one of them pleaded guilty and was a prosecution witness.
>>>
>>
>> One of the people who abducted him plead guilty to abduction. There
>> is a difference.
Do you concede the point that the one that plead guilty did not plead guilty
to racially aggrevated murder?
>>
>>
>>>> My point is not to say that they are guilty or not (of the racially
>>>> motivated part), my point is
>>>> that we cannot know.
>>>
>>> They have been tried and found guilty...this not some tabloid rumour.
>>>
>>
>> What were the charges they were found guilty of?
>
> Racially aggravated murder.
Ta. Although you and I were not party to the evidence that allowed the jury
to decide that the murder was racially aggrevated, do you accept that it is
not possible for you, I, or indeed anyone, other than the perpetrators, to
know that it was? Do you accept that the law is an ass?
>
> This what the CFRE had to say after the first trial.
>
> Commenting on the sentence, Kay Hampton of the Commission for Racial
> Equality in Scotland, said: "This sentencing sends a clear sign that
> racism, wherever it comes from, is always deplorable".
>
> The judge at the latest trial said:
>
> "Racially aggravated violence from whatever quarter will not be tolerated
> in Scotland."
>
This states that the two quoted believe that the murder, based on the
evidence, was race related and have put forward their stance on race related
crime. So What?
> It was reported:
>
> Kriss was abducted near his home in a random act of racially motivated
> revenge by the gang on 15 March, 2004.
>
Who cares? There were also many, many conflicting reports. Some I read, some
I heard first, sometimes second hand. That doesn't make any of them true.
>>
>>
>>>> Someone capeable of such horrific actions is
>>>> certainly capeable of lying about their motivation, yes, and so too
>>>> are they capeable of doing and saying absolutely anything to achieve
>>>> their admonishment. If ZB said that he didn't think it was race
>>>> related, based on the information he had at the time, it is
>>>> certainly not proven or otherwise, in a sense that it is true, by
>>>> the decision of the judge and jury.
>>>
>>> In other words you can never be 100%% sure about anything. By your
>>> logic no criminal conviction can be regarded as 'true'.
>>
>> Correct. In the true sense of the word 'true'. That is not at odds
>> with society being justified in punishing people based on the premise
>> of the outcome of 'a fair trial'.
>
> Reasonable doubt.
Please elucidate. Somone being 'found guilty beyond reasonable doubt'
doesn't make them actually guilty, does it?
>
>>
>>> It's about reasonable doubt
>>> and it dosen't look to me, from what we have been told, that there
>>> is any.
>>
>> Doubt about what? What someone was *thinking* when they brutally
>> tortured and murdered another human being?
>
> Their motive...yes.
There is doubt about their motive? Let me get this right. There is doubt
about something that we can never be without doubt about?
Angof,
If I killed you because you are a dirty orange bastard, what should be my
punishment? If I killed you because you are a homosexual, what should be my
punishment?If I killed you because you are a paki, what should be my
punishment? If I killed you because you raped my daughter, what should be my
punishment? If I killed you because you made me look foolish, what should be
my punishment? If I killed you because you were near me at the time, what
should be my punishment? If I killed you because it was my job, what should
be my punishment? If I killed you because I just felt like it, what should
be my punishment?
Stop making it about race. It doesn't matter if it was or not. Our society
doesn't tolerate murderers, no matter what group anyone thinks they fall in
to.
Racism is wrong, it needs addressed. Murder is wrong, regardless of race,
sex, religion.
--
Den
