DEMOCRACY AND THE UK MINISTRY OF JUSTICE (II)
A little known official public debate which may be viewed at
http://governance.justice.gov.uk/2008/07/08/the-process-continues-a-discussion-f.../

Michael Macpherson
18 August 2008
Comment ID #128
Anne Palmer 14 August 2008 Comment ID #102 wrote:
“Magna Carta of course is a Treaty between the people and the Crown and
Parliament may not alter it. See also the people’s Bill of Rights. To
get round this however, the Government have realised that either Her
Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II (The Crown) would have to repeal them, which
she either obviously has not be asked to do, or has been asked and has
refused, so the alternative is to perhaps ask the other ‘parties to the
treaty-in other words “the people” to repeal them, themselves.”

The barons who negotiated with King John can hardly be said to have
represented the people in a democratic way. However, the principle that
in our time the people should naturally decide on major issues of state
in plebiscite is a good one, sadly unfamiliar to or resisted by most
current day politicians and UK pundits of state constitution.

"Today ... marks the introduction of our first online discussion topic
which follows on from the publication and presentation of the discussion
paper, ‘A National Framework for Greater Citizen Engagement’ to
Parliament by the Justice Minister. This discussion will last for about
two weeks, but we are going to divide this into themes: talking about
levels of current engagment, discussion on deliberative engagement, and
discussion on the proposed mechanisms."

http://governance.justice.gov.uk/2008/07/08/the-process-continues-a-discussion-f.../

http://www.chuckypita.com/china-olympic-games-strike-three-money-big-brother-pol.../

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In an attempt to ward off genuine participation of the people in
democracy, with its "green" discussion paper G. Brown's Labour
government lowers the portcullis. The paper, introduced by Michael
Wills, may be downloaded from
http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/cm71/7170/7170.pdf
"A national framework for greater citizen engagement"

Below is the preliminary reply of I&R ~ GB, the Campaign for Direct
Democracy in Britain.

You may add your view to an online discussion with the Minister for
Justice at the well known politics web site They Work for You
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wms/?id=2008-07-09a.77WS.3

and also debate this at Democr@cy Forum which you can join via
http://www.iniref.org/campaign.html

------------------------------------

FIRST REPLY TO: "A national framework for greater citizen engagement: A
discussion paper – published July 2008"
By: I&R ~ GB

The July 2008 issue of The Individual, the journal of the Society for
Individual Freedom (http://www.individualist.org.uk) is now available
as a free PDF download at http://www.individualist.org.uk/pdf/2008julyindiv.pdf.

CONTENTS

Eurocentrism versus Multiculturalism - Professor Stephen Levitt &
Professor David McNaron
The Trouble with Multiculturalism - Professor David McNaron
Terrorism, Collateral Damage and Double Effects - Richard Garner
Slavery and the Slave Trade: Apologies, Abolition and Justification -
Peter Richards

01.05.2008 Jää historian kirjoihin erityispäivämääränä josta alkaa ydinalan
vaikeudet kasautumaan aivan erityisesti myös Suomessa. Jo siitä asti kun
puollisentoista vuotta sitten Krister Fuuglesangin NASA:n
avaruusionisaatioraportin tiedot maapalloa kohtaavasta vääjäämättömästä
ydinvoimapäästöjen megatuhosta vuodettiin maailman päättäjille ydinalan
alasajon välttämättömyys on ollut tiedossa. Samasta pohjasta jopa IPCC
ennakoi koko ilmastojärjestelmän tuhoa 10v sisällä. Mutta toukokuusta alkaa
myös tietomuruja mainiyusta maailmanhistorian suurimmasta
ydinkatastrofitulemisesta vuotaa, esim. kauttani viimein suuren kansanmassan
tietoisuuteen. Mistä tarkemmin on kyse. Maailman metastabiilinen
perustaustataso on 10-kertaistunut totaalisen tuhoisaan suuntaansa
romahdellen. Luonto itsessään viestittää...

From The Times
July 10, 2008
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article4305321...

Good, bad and plain daft ideas of power to people

"The real scope for direct democracy and participation is local, as
described by Ms Blears, apart from the occasional referendum.
Nationally, the priority is to reinvigorate representative democracy."

IandRgb comment ca. 19:00 10th July 2008 (only 300 characters allowed in
this public forum)

The Communities white paper states "Universal Declaration of Human
Rights set out rights to ... take part in government “directly or
through freely chosen representatives”". The right of an electorate to
call a referendum is thus a basic component of democracy, denied by the
Justice ministry.

I&R ~ GB Citizens' Initiative and Referendum
Campaign for direct democracy in Britain
http://www.iniref.org/

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The United States and the European Union are near
a deal on letting law enforcement and security agencies obtain private
information like credit card transactions and travel histories about
people on the other side of the Atlantic, The New York Times reported
on Saturday.
(Advertisement)

The newspaper, which obtained an internal report on the potential
agreement, said it would amount to a diplomatic breakthrough for U.S.
counterterrorism officials after a history of clashing with the EU
over demands for personal data.

It was unclear when the agreement could be completed, the Times said,
citing officials, but the Bush administration wants to resolve the
issues before leaving office in January and is hoping for an agreement
that would not require congressional approval.

Negotiators, meeting since February 2007, have mostly worked out draft
language for 12 major issues at the heart of a "binding international
agreement," according to the report. Among other things, the pact
would make clear that European governments and companies could
lawfully exchange personal information with the United States.

01.05.2008 Jää historian kirjoihin erityispäivämääränä josta alkaa ydinalan
vaikeudet kasautumaan aivan erityisesti myös Suomessa. Jo siitä asti kun
puollisentoista vuotta sitten Krister Fuuglesangin NASA:n
avaruusionisaatioraportin tiedot maapalloa kohtaavasta vääjäämättömästä
ydinvoimapäästöjen megatuhosta vuodettiin maailman päättäjille ydinalan
alasajon välttämättömyys on ollut tiedossa. Samasta pohjasta jopa IPCC
ennakoi koko ilmastojärjestelmän tuhoa 10v sisällä. Mutta toukokuusta alkaa
myös tietomuruja mainiyusta maailmanhistorian suurimmasta
ydinkatastrofitulemisesta vuotaa, esim. kauttani viimein suuren kansanmassan
tietoisuuteen. Mistä tarkemmin on kyse. Maailman metastabiilinen
perustaustataso on 10-kertaistunut totaalisen tuhoisaan suuntaansa
romahdellen. Luonto itsessään viestittää...

*( Koko allaoleva olisi ollut vuosia kestäneistä ennustavista
varoituksistani huolimatta joskus viimevuosituhannella vielä silkka vitsi
julkisuudessa. Silloin ilottiin CO2 lisäävän sadantoja kautta maailman
toitotetuissa propagoinneissa kautta maailman, kuten hyvin muistamme.
Lämmönkasvun haihduntalisän +40%% sadantalisien ennakoitiin suorastaan
kastavan maapallomme CO2 lisälannoituksin sellaiseen kasvuspurttiin, että
Suomen alati kasvavasta elintarvikkeen ylituotannosta povattiin
maailmanvitsausta! .. Ydinaavikoitumisen ja alati vähenevästä ja
MITTAAMASTANI sadannaan -31%% totaalikadosta ja sen jopa einsteinin
tuntemista kvanttifaktoistani väänneltiin lähinnä vitsejä nettimaailmoissa."
Miten joku viittiikin moista väittää, kun kaikki povasi IPCC:tä myöten
valtaisia sadantaorgioita". Mutta...