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Author: G HardyG Hardy Date: Dec 25, 2007 23:30
Is it possible for power of attorney to be worded in such a way for the
donor to lose their rights to draw on their bank account (for example)?
The donor (in this case) still has full mental capacity, but their attorney
is upset that the donor has unilaterally gifted some money without asking
their "consent".
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Author: Peter CroslandPeter Crosland Date: Dec 25, 2007 23:55
G Hardy wrote:
> Is it possible for power of attorney to be worded in such a way for
> the donor to lose their rights to draw on their bank account (for
> example)?
> The donor (in this case) still has full mental capacity, but their
> attorney is upset that the donor has unilaterally gifted some money
> without asking their "consent".
If the person still has full mental capacity then they still retain their
full powers to dispose of their property as they wish. They have no need to
consult with the POA holder at all. The scenario you outline suggest that
the POA holder has no idea of their responsibilities and rights, and should
perhaps be replaced with someone who does.
Peter Crosland
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Author: Brian GBrian G Date: Dec 26, 2007 00:10
G Hardy wrote:
> Is it possible for power of attorney to be worded in such a way for
> the donor to lose their rights to draw on their bank account (for
> example)?
> The donor (in this case) still has full mental capacity, but their
> attorney is upset that the donor has unilaterally gifted some money
> without asking their "consent".
G Hardy
From my direct experience as an 'attorney', as long as the donor has full
mental capacity he/she can do as they wish with their finances (or anything
else for that matter) without the consent of anyone - and in fact can even
revoke the power of attorney if they so desire.
Please note that my experiences were before the recent change of the rules
and my not now be relevant.
Brian G
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Author: G HardyG Hardy Date: Dec 26, 2007 03:40
>G Hardy wrote:
>> Is it possible for power of attorney to be worded in such a way for
>> the donor to lose their rights to draw on their bank account (for
>> example)?
>> The donor (in this case) still has full mental capacity, but their
>> attorney is upset that the donor has unilaterally gifted some money
>> without asking their "consent".
>
> If the person still has full mental capacity then they still retain their
> full powers to dispose of their property as they wish. They have no need
> to
> consult with the POA holder at all. The scenario you outline suggest that
> the POA holder has no idea of their responsibilities and rights, and
> should
> perhaps be replaced with someone who does...
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Author: CynicCynic Date: Jan 8, 2008 16:35
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 23:10:04 +0000, "Brian G" invalllid.com>
wrote:
On a related issue, would a man who has POA for his elderly (and
increasingly senile) mother be legally entitled to sell his mother's
house to himself or another trusted family member if he considered it
to be in his mother's best interests to do so?
It arises out of a wish to keep the house out of the clutches of
Social Services who may well wish to use it to pay for care that
should be available on the NHS (according to how I read recent court
decisions).
This is definitely *not* a case of the son wishing to get what he can
for himself - it is a question of providing the best possible quality
of life for his mother's remaining time, which is likely to be greatly
diminished if the social perceive that there is a house available for
them to try to grab while they stick the woman in a "care" home
somewhere and keep her alive just long enough to use up the money.
The son would rather sell the house and use the proceeds to modify it
such that the mother would be OK to live in it - at least for as long
as possible.
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Author: John BriggsJohn Briggs Date: Jan 8, 2008 19:10
Cynic wrote:
>
> On a related issue, would a man who has POA for his elderly (and
> increasingly senile) mother be legally entitled to sell his mother's
> house to himself or another trusted family member if he considered it
> to be in his mother's best interests to do so?
With subtle changes, Brian G.'s answer still applies: as long as the donor
has full mental capacity he/she can do as they wish with their finances, and
the attorney can do anything on their behalf. But if the donor is really
"increasingly senile" the POA needs to be registered with the Court of
Protection and considerable restrictions apply.
--
John Briggs
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Author: CynicCynic Date: Jan 8, 2008 20:25
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 18:10:12 +0000, "John Briggs"
ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> On a related issue, would a man who has POA for his elderly (and
>> increasingly senile) mother be legally entitled to sell his mother's
>> house to himself or another trusted family member if he considered it
>> to be in his mother's best interests to do so?
>
>With subtle changes, Brian G.'s answer still applies: as long as the donor
>has full mental capacity he/she can do as they wish with their finances, and
>the attorney can do anything on their behalf. But if the donor is really
>"increasingly senile" the POA needs to be registered with the Court of
>Protection and considerable restrictions apply.
The woman is mentally OK about 70%% of the time at present, and is
about to undergo an "assessmet" to quantify her condition. The
medical diagnoses has so far alternated between the onset of demetia
and...
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Author: Old CodgerOld Codger Date: Jan 8, 2008 20:35
John Briggs wrote:
> Cynic wrote:
>> On a related issue, would a man who has POA for his elderly (and
>> increasingly senile) mother be legally entitled to sell his mother's
>> house to himself or another trusted family member if he considered it
>> to be in his mother's best interests to do so?
>
> With subtle changes, Brian G.'s answer still applies: as long as the donor
> has full mental capacity he/she can do as they wish with their finances, and
> the attorney can do anything on their behalf. But if the donor is really
> "increasingly senile" the POA needs to be registered with the Court of
> Protection and considerable restrictions apply.
Don't think it necessarily removes the house from the clutches of Social
Services though.
--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field
What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make
people believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]
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Author: Percy PicacityPercy Picacity Date: Jan 8, 2008 21:55
Cynic yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
news:0fi7o3pcc7ql4q4357su8igi0pift5fck7@4ax.com:
snip
> Who gets to decide that the Court of Protection needs to be
> invoked, and what does the Court of Protection consist of - and is
> it likely that it would decide in favour of the mother's wellbeing
> if that is against the interests of another authority (e.g. the
> social services)?
>
The relatives can apply to the court. The available grounds for
doing so have become wider recently.
The court will listen to representations from the Social Services
and the relatives if they differ. The court would look favourably
on the person's money being used to keep her comfortable at home....
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Author: CynicCynic Date: Jan 9, 2008 14:55
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 20:55:04 +0000, Percy Picacity
wrote:
>> Who gets to decide that the Court of Protection needs to be
>> invoked, and what does the Court of Protection consist of - and is
>> it likely that it would decide in favour of the mother's wellbeing
>> if that is against the interests of another authority (e.g. the
>> social services)?
>>
>The relatives can apply to the court. The available grounds for
>doing so have become wider recently.
My friend has POA already. Therefore IIUC he can organise the sale of
her house without applying to any court. What am I missing?
--
Cynic
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