On Jan 28, 1:20Â pm, thula
gmail.com> wrote:> On Jan 29, 3:34Â am, "Carrie"
kingcon.com> wrote:
>
>
>
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>>> "Katie"
yahoo.com> wrote in message>
>
>>> "Katie"
yahoo.com> wrote in message>
>
>>>> Yes, it is. I forgot that phrase,
>>>> "the forgiven world.'
>>>> Thanks.
>
>>> This is one glaring example of how ACIM is a destructive belief
>>> system. It exonerates people like you who are malicious, hateful, and
>>> quite capable of causing harm and damage to others, by telling you
>>> that you are "innocent" and "forgiven". Besides inciting vile people
>>> to continue being vile, the two assertions are not even congruent.
>
>>> ~ ~ ~
>
>>> Okay, so when exactly DOES one become forgiven? How long does it take and
>>> what do you have to do to achieve it?
>
>>> If not now, when?
>
>>> gig
>
>> Achieve forgiveness? Â Why do we need it if we're innocent?
>
>> You don't make any sense. Â You can't "achieve" forgiveness. Â It's
>> either given or not. Â We can't force it out of another, even if that
>> other is God, in which case, I have no clue how you're going to find
>> out about it, and neither do you, but you can always lie about that,
>> and I can't fathom why anyone would want to forgive you for that,
>> including God.
>
>> Have you ever considered using the dictionary definition of the word
>> "forgiveness"? Â Words, after all, are human inventions that we have
>> all agreed to share the meanings of so we can communicate
>> effectively.  The  point in re-defining words is to create a sense of
>> Specialness and Importance in those who adopt the completely different
>> version and then sneer down their noses at all the stupid people who
>> don't know what the word **really** means, which is one great way to
>> make horse's asses out of gullible people by isolating them from the
>> rest of humanity.
>
>>>>>>> Â If God needs a new language, let her provide us
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>> with one.
>
>> Â She hasn't been officially elected president yet...- Hide quoted text -
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>> - Show quoted text -
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> -------------
>
> Gig wrote:
>> This is one glaring example of how ACIM is a destructive belief
>> system.
>
> ACIM is not a pure teaching in its officially published form. Neither
> is it destructive unless anyone chooses to perceive it that way. A lot
> of changes and omissions have been made that distort the message of
> light and healing into something deemed more appropriate - and ends up
> being more confusing.
>
> Forgiveness and the idea of Spirit and the teaching of the Golden Rule
> are all tools to help us all back into health, healing, wholeness; and
> when wholeness begins to return to individuals, talents will become
> available - these talents being the gifts each person has, often
> buried beneath layers of denial that have to be let go but gently, in
> love, thorugh forgiveness and the recognition of equality of worth.
>
> All illness is in the mind, the perception ofl loss and illness is in
> the mind. Each mind is as different from other minds as anything that
> can be observed in nature. Forgiveness usually needs two people - one
> the offender, the other the victim. But it also involves the
> relationship with oneself.
>
> Each mind has immense power of decision, and in illness of the mind,
> decisions have been made that lock it into what is destrructive or
> incomplete. The power of belief can be equally forceful in maintaining
> false beliefs of separation.
>
> For me, to really forgive means to let go of grievances. It means that
> my impulses of anger, which can be easily provoked, basically have no
> meaning because it is only a matter of time before I realise I have
> made an error and seek correction.
>
> It also means that any thoughlessness, carelessness, outright
> persecution or any form of abuse towards me or from me can be seen as
> the means to learn to see this in terms of healing and rsoration
> instead, so changing the direction of personal intent.
>
> Love always gives. It is always relational. There is no God "out
> there" - It is all in the connection between mind heart and purpose in
> relationships.
>
> Real forgiveness needs an agent beyond the time of the clock. Real
> forgiveness may need to reach people and memories long agao passed
> away. They are gone but still retain a sense of existence in the mind
> of the person living now. An example here is the existence of ancient
> feuds, without naming anything or anyone.
>
> I can say: I forgive Katie - what real meaning does this have for her?
> It is not a pardon. It is not a condoning. I received a card from a
> friend today teaching me that even sharks can decide to express
> gratitude. I cannot be the thing that my brother judges me to be.
>
> with love
> thula-
Forgive Katie for what?
For being herself?
Does that also apply to you, and everyone else someone else might not
always agree with?
