George,
"I'm not stirred up but I am defending the truth about me. That I can
choose to see the sinlessness and perfection in anyone. That I have
the choice to see all things and all people as good. The best part
about this power to choose and to see only the good is it makes it
impossible to be the victim or wounded in any way because EVERYTHING
that happens is for my benefit."
I know all about victims and victimizers from a Course perspective.
I understand your comment above.
And I hear that you forgave a situation, and it turned out to be good for
you.
That's no reason to deny war, poverty, or those who are in need, however.
And your decisions and actions haven't done anything more than offer you
some personal freedom and peace in regards to events in your life. They
haven't affected the world. They might demonstrate to some other people they
can have a forgiving stance, too. So does Christianity. It hasn't stopped
wars, though, and hasn't made a dent in the drug and alcohol problem in this
country. And more.
It's easy when it's just about *you.*
I honor the decisions you have made in your personal life. That's great.
That doesn't mean the world is going to change based upon personal spiritual
introspection. If it did, by the countless number of people as yourself, the
world would be a different place. It hasn't changed at all.
Jeanette
*****
"george"
hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c1b7f11c-0966-4fdb-b202-08bb178c2e69@w5g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 29, 11:49 am, "Jeanette" verizon.net> wrote:> George,
>
> "How many people do you know actually try to look within themselves and
> find their God given nature and try to become that?"
>
> I know many who claim to be awakened Course Teachers. There's dozens. The
> world hasn't changed.
>
> What you are speaking of here, george, isn't foreign to me. I've studied
> metaphysics for 30 some years, if not more.
>
> These are principles touted in most of the materials. It's always about
> changing yourself inside, and then the world changes.
>
> But, spiritual dogma isn't needed for this. So you stopped using drugs and
> alcohol and your world changed? That's rather apparent, george. And there
> are people who experience the same absent use of spiritual materials.
>
> Telling me I see pain and suffering in the world isn't an accurate
> statement. There is pain and suffering in the world. Come to work with me
> in
> the ER. Tell me how you would change the world. What you will respond is
> that I should change my mind about the world, and see that it is all good.
> I
> do disagree.
And that is your choice and your God given right. We all live in the
world we CHOOSE to focus on. There is no reality of Evil, unfair and
bad unless we want it in our lives. I'll copy and paste from one of my
other recent posts to illuminate what I believe the truth is.
I'm not stirred up but I am defending the truth about me. That I can
choose to see the sinlessness and perfection in anyone. That I have
the choice to see all things and all people as good. The best part
about this power to choose and to see only the good is it makes it
impossible to be the victim or wounded in any way because EVERYTHING
that happens is for my benefit. I may not know what it is but I can
have faith in God and his plans for good. By laying down all judgment
and seeing everything as good, gives me great power over my life. For
instance a few months ago when the house was robbed for $30,000 I can
see it in two ways. One way would be, the SOB that robbed me is gonna
pay when I find him as he is a jerk for robbing me. Another way would
be, he's a screwed up drug addict that can't control himself. I'll
give him whatever he needs from me and won't worry about it as I have
been blessed with enough. One way condemns and comes from my belief
that I don't have enough to go around. The other way forgives and
comes from my abundance. I CHOOSE to believe in his goodness and my
abundance. It is only a choice. I'm not saying it's easy and I'm not
saying I might not have to choose again many times when a part of me
wants to condemn, what I am saying it is ALWAYS a choice. I can be a
victim or not. I can be hurt or not. What difference does it make
that
he took stuff and money from me in the long run? In 100 years I'll be
dead and buried and no one will remember me. In a billion or so years
the earth will be gone. This world is temporary so why would I EVER
CHOOSE to be the victim and wounded? I don't want pain in my life, I
want joy, and by my choices I can have either. That's the truth I'm
defending. It's one of the most important things I have ever learned
and I want to share it as I'm not special and everyone has the same
power to choose at every instant.
I also wanted to say that in my choices leads to what is strengthened
in me. If I choose to condemn, hate, be the victim, say it's not fair
or fight back then I'm choosing to hear the ego's voice and it is
strengthened in me and I am able to hear it more clearly as that is
my
choice.
If I instead choose to follow the Holy Spirit and see love,
forgiveness abundance and blessings it's voice is strengthened in me
and it becomes easier and easier to ignore the ego and it's screams
of
how terrible and unfair the world is. I'm not perfect and many times
I
have to choose again but that's where my thought of, I'm doing the
best I can comes in. It is impossible to believe this though unless I
believe it about everyone else too because I'm not better than anyone
else and we all make mistakes.
It's not what Jesus says. Jesus says change is in good order,
> not that it is all good.
>
> And I disagree. I do not feel we should focus *only* on ourselves. I feel
> this isn't what Jesus teaches, nor does this make any real change in the
> world. It only changes your perspective, and so your life changes, but it
> doesn't do much for anyone else.
>
> I know there are belief systems that state focusing on yourself changes
> the
> world. But, as yet, there is no tangible evidence of this. War continues.
> The trickle down from the spiritually enlightened apparently hasn't made a
> dent in poverty, or suffering. There is a lot of denial that it exists,
> however.
>
> What this message states, which has been stated for decades is
> only focus on *you* Well, sure, if you get your house in order your
> relationships will improve. But that doesn't have anything to do with
> spirituality, it has to do with choices.
>
> And most definitely I know God in my life. We just have a different
> viewpoint. I certainly don't find that all that occurs is of God, and
> therefore is for the general Good.
>
> "What I don't agree with is that by working on the outside world, inner
> change comes."
>
> Digging a garden, seeing burnt bodies in the ER, having your house swept
> away in a hurricane, inner change occurs, it most certainly does. And by
> being a working member of society, having the courage to work with
> individuals who could care less as to metaphysics and spirituality,
> teaches
> you worlds. The shifts-of-perception by offering yourself in a genuine way
> to other people are greater than those whereby you determine to only "work
> with yourself."
>
> Congrats on the changes you have made in your life. I still see heroin
> addicts who are in their teens. My change of mind doesn't affect them.
> Their
> change of mind might. All I can do is be of service the best I can be, and
> remember their life circumstance doesn't change the fact that they are
> children of God. And yes, working in these circumstances changes me
> inwardly, it can't help but do so. My work has probably been my 2nd
> greatest
> teacher. My children are my 1st.
>
> Jeanette
>
> ******"george"
hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ab9131f5-4338-40b8-938a-a54e08edb2e5@s33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 29, 11:03 am, "Jeanette" verizon.net> wrote:
>>> George,
>
>> "We can only change ourselves. We can't change the world, we can't
>> change anyone else, as soon as we take complete responsibility for our
>> own actions and change into our true God given nature, the world will
>> change,"
>
>> I don't buy this, George. It hasn't worked.
>
> How many people do you know actually try to look within themselves and
> find their God given nature and try to become that? Or is it easier to
> focus one's attention on the outside world that can't be controlled
> and use that as an excuse of why they can't even control ourselves?
> When you say it hasn't worked, what does that mean? You see death,
> destruction, hatred, starvation and pain? There is a choice involved
> here, as I choose to see God's plans unfolding for the good of
> mankind. That many people choose pain to awaken to their God given
> nature. I needed a lot of pain to see I didn't want to use drugs and
> alcohol ever again. So was the pain, "BAD". Not from my perspective.
> It got me to where I am today and I like where I am today. I choose to
> believe God knows what he's doing and I choose to try and do my part
> by doing the ONLY thing I actually can do. Let God lead my life, my
> thoughts and work through me.
>
> I first encountered it in 12
>
>> step alanon groups in my early 20s, later in Seth material, had the
>> utter
>> pleasure of speaking with the infamous Penny North, et al, in CIS, and
>> then
>> noted course students speaking this same jargon. To me it's an excuse, a
>> diversion, a denial, that the world can't change by doing anything other
>> than chanting and meditating.
>
>> Sure, we can change ourselves. Sure personal responsibility is
>> important.
>
>> But this spiritual position, as you have delineated, hasn't changed the
>> world.
>
> It has certainly changed the world I live in because by changing
> myself I've found out that reality is a choice of my perception. I
> live in the world I choose to put my focus on.
>
> And there are many who claim they are Enlightened, Awake, Aware,
>
>> Course Graduates, Teachers of Teachers, and the world hasn't changed.
>> You,
>> yourself, have stated the world will become nothingness, and so, there
>> is
>> no
>> reason to change the world.
>
> I stated we should ONLY focus on ourselves as that is all we can
> actually control. The world will change, as we change. It has for me.
>
> Yet, here you take the position that you want to
>
>> change yourself to change the world. It doesn't seem logical to me. You
>> either find doing nothing, and waiting for the world's dissolution to be
>> your philosophy, or that the world exists, and there is much you can do.
>
> Of course there is much I can do. I can try and control my thoughts at
> EVERY instant. I can try and only think in line with Gods thoughts as
> I understand them. This is a huge undertaking that takes a complete
> surrender to the Spirit. But why else would we be here if not to
> perfect ourselves?
>
>
>
>> I like Jimmy Carter, and Mother Teresa. They speak of inner change, and
>> also
>> they do something for the world. It is possible. Being demonstrative in
>> tangible ways does deliver a message that is far more potent than
>> "changing
>> ourselves" will somehow, miraculously, do something in the world.
>
> The works you speak of, come as the found God within expresses
> himself. When my thoughts are aligned with his, my actions naturally
> follow.
>
> The world
>
>> hasn't changed with the latter; it has with the former. I propose doing
>> good
>> works in the world is the kind of inner change we need. I propose that
>> what
>> really changes your heart and mind is doing good things for other
>> people.
>> I
>> don't find that anything changes, including the inner dynamic, by those
>> who
>> spend most of their time repetitively chanting spiritual material.
>
> I would agree with that. What I don't agree with is that by working on
> the outside world, inner change comes. I believe by working on the
> only thing we can actually control, ourselves, that the outer world is
> naturally effected.
>
>
>
>
>
>> There is also the spiritual speak that says the world is an illusion,
>> doesn't exist, and we are going to wake up finding ourselves as gray
>> matter
>> as part of God's Mind. I don't find that true, either. There is much I
>> do
>> find true in metaphysics, but statements which have over the decades
>> been
>> made in regards to changing the world through "changing ourselves,"
>> really
>> lacks any tangible outcomes, other than perhaps, denying what is going
>> on,
>> and just trying to stay among people who will validate for you if you
>> stay
>> close, affirm to one another spiritual dogma, it will all go away.
>
>> My opinion.
>
>> Jeanette
>
>> *****"george"
hotmail.com> wrote in message>
>
>>> Gene,
>
>>> Direct intervention, as Jesus did, when he walked the Earth.
>
>>> Authentic teachers, who identify themselves in directing miracles.
>
>>> Where are the ascended masters now? Where are the Visions of Mary? Why
>>> doesn't Jesus appear?
>
>>> Was _A Course in Miracles_ meant to end war, famine, and poverty?
>
>>> Direct revelation once again is a *personal* experience, and nothing
>>> in
>>> the
>>> world is manifesting differently than it ever has. Now we're talking
>>> "food
>>> shortages." Seems Jesus would want to appear again, but nothing of the
>>> scale
>>> of what is needed is happening right now.
>
>>> All we have are students who declare the world doesn't exist, and
>>> someone
>>> who states they saw Mary in a park. But nothing really has changed. I
>>> don't
>>> buy the message of the Course is about waiting for the world's
>>> dissolution,
>>> we need take no action in regard to doing good, and we should huddle
>>> in
>>> spiritual groups chanting "It's all good."
>
>>> Jeanette
>
>> We can only change ourselves. We can't change the world, we can't
>> change anyone else, as soon as we take complete responsibility for our
>> own actions and change into our true God given nature, the world will
>> change, if only the little bit of what we have done. Our only "job"
>> here is to do our part as that is all we have complete control over.
>> God's voice is in everyone and as we hear our own God given voice we
>> strengthen it in our brothers but we can not decide for them to listen
>> to it. As we forgive and see our brothers as sinless it becomes harder
>> and harder to run from God. But if we choose not to do our ,"jobs" and
>> see them or the world as enemies and bad people, we both run from God
>> and no one will be joyful. Just one man's opinion, one man that's
>> uncovering his own God given nature.- Hide quoted text -
>
>> - Show quoted text- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -...
>
> read more
