>On May 5, 1:08 pm, Deborah pumpetypump.com> wrote:

>> On Mon, 5 May 2008 12:55:01 -0700 (PDT), Reality Scan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> gmail.com> wrote:

>>>On May 5, 1:37 pm, george hotmail.com> wrote:

>>>> On May 5, 11:25 am, Reality Scan gmail.com> wrote:

>>

>>>>> On May 5, 11:40 am, "Pieter" wrote:

>>

>>>>>> "Deborah" pumpetypump.com> schreef in berichtnews:1cbs14d5fn29s2nf4vnq13cmh1jbhhbhdj@4ax.com...

>>

>>>>>>> On Sun, 4 May 2008 23:36:49 +0200, "Pieter"
>>>>>>> wrote:

>>

>>>>>>>>"Gene" chewbacca.org> schreef in bericht
>>>>>>>>news:Xns9A94824BE7E9Egenewardsmithsbcglob@207.115.17.102...

>>>>>>>>> The spiritual eye literally CANNOT SEE error, and merely
>>>>>>>>> looks for Atonement.

>>

>>>>>>>>> Atonement is for all, because it is the way to UNDO the
>>>>>>>>> belief that ANYTHING is for you ALONE. To forgive is to
>>>>>>>>> OVERLOOK. Look, then, BEYOND error, and do not let your
>>>>>>>>> perception rest UPON it, for you will believe what your
>>>>>>>>> perception HOLDS. Accept as true only what your brother IS,
>>>>>>>>> if you would know yourself.

>>

>>>>>>>>> The ego has a plan of forgiveness, because you are ASKING for
>>>>>>>>> one, but not of the right teacher. The EGO'S plan, of course,
>>>>>>>>> MAKES NO SENSE and WILL NOT WORK. By following it, you will
>>>>>>>>> merely place yourself in an impossible situation, to which
>>>>>>>>> the ego ALWAYS leads you. Its plan is to have you SEE ERROR
>>>>>>>>> CLEARLY FIRST, and THEN overlook it. But how CAN you overlook
>>>>>>>>> what you have made real? By seeing it clearly, you HAVE made
>>>>>>>>> it real, and CANNOT overlook it.

>>

>>>>>>>>Fresh air.

>>

>>>>>>> Trouble is, if you smelled something putrid in the atmosphere here,
>>>>>>> then you weren't applying the Holy Spirit's killfile.  Don't get me
>>>>>>> wrong, I'm not suggesting it's easy to do.

>>

>>>>>> The point is: when I smell "something putrid
>>>>>> in the atmosphere here", then it is my own
>>>>>> ego, which I am busy to relinquish but did
>>>>>> not yet relinquish completely, that is irritated
>>>>>> by it. With the help of the Holy Spirit I can
>>>>>> relinquish this part of it, which means further
>>>>>> healing of my mind. The Holy Spirit can
>>>>>> remove from me only what I consciously
>>>>>> give to Him.
>>>>>> I agree that it's not always easy to do.

>>

>>>>>>> Deborah (BC)

>>

>>>>> Awe geez. Talk about intellectualizing course teachings!

>>

>>>>> The course is not asking you to eat a turd mistakenly placed on your
>>>>> dinner plate at a restaurant.

>>

>>>>> If you are saying the course is teaching you to eat the turd, perhaps
>>>>> its only your faulty ego thinking which can't get a handle around
>>>>> basic course concepts which is convincing you to eat the turd.

>>

>>>>> Errors imply correction. Atonement or undoing, or the undoing of
>>>>> mental error is the correction though the miracle.

>>

>>>>> The dumb notion that mental errors are somehow corrected by
>>>>> overlooking errors, assumes first that a mind itself in error can
>>>>> recognize error, and then a mind in error can decide by its own effort
>>>>> to make what it actively believes "not real."

>>

>>>>> There is no reason to believe the healed or healing mind does not
>>>>> smell putrid, because the course tells us as the mind is healed it
>>>>> becomes increasing less tolerant and not LESS tolerant of errors.
>>>>> Moreover the author tells us to join his crusade to correct errors in
>>>>> ourselves and others.

>>

>>>>> So the question is how are errors which are always errors of thought --
>>>>> corrected?

>>

>>>>> Moreover, Atonement is collective and you do not see nor understand
>>>>> the larger picture. Its might seem to your ego reasoning that you can
>>>>> overlook putrid posting like mocking the Holy Spirit, while the larger
>>>>> picture may very well consider how such posting effects other brother
>>>>> more vulnerable you to written words.

>>

>>>>> So you don't know. In the process such dumb, highly abstract
>>>>> reasoning, out of full context is making a practical course, highly
>>>>> impractical, and little more than wishful thinking that if I close my
>>>>> eyes to error, error will go away.- Hide quoted text -

>>

>>>>> - Show quoted text -

>>

>>>> Hi John. I think we are in choice here again. Have you been following
>>>> what I've been saying in other threads that it is all a choice in how
>>>> something is percieved or do you think I'm crazy and that reality IS
>>>> reality and there is no choice?

>>

>>>Well what do you mean by this sloppy thinking?  Are you saying you
>>>could choose to perceive a cardboard box as a spaceship and by this
>>>choice you and your neighbors could take a ride to the moon?

>>

>>>Moreover, a course basic is Reality is Reality and any choice you make
>>>doesn't effect Reality. That you think you can alter Reality by choice
>>>is the authority problem.

>>
>> Do you think it is talking about the reality of cardboard boxes?
>>

>>>In addition, changing your perceptions/beliefs by your own efforts
>>>does not heal mental errors. If one is in closed system of systemic
>>>error, correction cannot be accomplished within that system, rather
>>>must be corrected from outside the system with an-out-of-the-system
>>>reference for reality and truth. Which is why errors of thought must
>>>be healed at the causal level by supplying the love the fear thoughts
>>>lack, which when accomplished shifts perception to love or a more
>>>loving perspective.

>>
>> That's what George is doing.  He constantly refers to "seeing with the
>> Holy Spirit" rather than the ego.  That's what the course says is the
>> only remaining freedom in this world - the choice to listen to one of
>> two voices.
>>

>>>If you change perception without the mental error being healed,
>>>perception because it changes, can change again. Hence no healing for
>>>various reasons.

>>

>>>The main question and most important answer in A Course in Miracles,
>>>is if mental errors can be effectively healed, and if they can be
>>>healed, how specifically is this done.

>>
>> If you are wondering whether George is really "seeing with the Holy
>> Spirit" or simply substituting what he imagines the Holy Spirit would
>> show him for what the ego shows him - well, that is the million dollar
>> question.  But we're not in a position to answer it for George, are
>> we?
>>
>> Deborah (BC)- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -

>
>That's an excellent point! So anyone can decide for themselves what
>they want to believe. I think for me the reason I'm not worried about
>the ego leading me is because when I was an atheist the ego voice was
>sooo clear and reality so obvious as I didn't hear the Holy Spirit at
>all since I had not invited him in. His voice and perception contrast
>so clearly for me as he teaches the opposite of what I used to know.
>Also by my own feeling of self worth and joy is how I know I'm
>following him. If I get unhappy, I know it's time to choose again as I
>haven't been listening. :)