http://www.nnseek.com/e/talk.religion.buddhism/ Posts for talk.religion.buddhism Thu, 15 May 2008 09:42:32 PDT http://www.nnseek.com/ http://www.nnseek.com/img/64.png 64 64 NNSeek http://www.nnseek.com/e/talk.religion.buddhism/big_picture_was_re_where_rubberz_meets_the_roadz_116285319t.html http://www.nnseek.com/e/talk.religion.buddhism/big_picture_was_re_where_rubberz_meets_the_roadz_116285319t.html my-deja.com> wrote: > > Also, you've probably seen the old debate come up about whether > awakening necessarily entails compassion or not. Many touchy-feely > folks demand it does (and they may well be right): that if you are > sufficiently awakened, you are so interconnected to others, that you > can't help but feel compassion and act on it. Some, including Tang, > have taken the other view: that you can be awakened but not > necessarily be compelled to act out of compassion. You might just > bliss out or be an amazing artist and create, or live as a hermit, > etc. > > Anyway, the concentration theme sheds light on this issue. If one > develops high levels of concentration without mindfulness or the other > factors in the 8-step plan, one can easily become a very aware warrior > or hit man, who is totally focused and can kill with emotional > detachment and with no hesitation (indeed, such hesitation or > compassion may just do him in and allow the other to get the first > shot in). Martial arts are filled with egoless concentration. > > So perhaps the focus on right livelihood, right speech, etc. as well > as right mindfulness, are included because one can get to a very high > level of awareness with only concentration which involves no > compassion and is morally neutral and can help one to be a good monk > as well as a good hitman. Vipassana teachers tend to stress > mindfulness as the most transformational aspect of meditation and > concentration as only a means to be able to practice mindfulness > effectively. > > --DharmaTroll The Buddha's two meditation teachers, Alara Kalama and Uddaka Ramaputta attained the last two formless attainments and thought they had awakening. Kalama attained the "base of nothingness" and Ramaputta "the base of neither perception nor non perception." Those are the highest possible states of absorption in the canon. In other words "You can't get any blanker." The dominant myth about meditation (which I was suprised to find with Raan just now) is that it's merely something like this, a state of blank conciousness an nonactivity, and nothing else. It's easy enough to think "ok, if i stop thinking, I'll stop suffering, *BAM* enlighenment. These two teachers thought they were enlightened because of it, and lots of other people with lots of other meditative experiences have thought the same thing. The Buddha knew better and left them. The problem as you mentioned is lack of insight. Once you stand up from a blank mind everything will just come flooding back again. It's kind of like having a really powerful microscope but not using it to look at anything. The Buddha had his awakening in the fourth Jhana, which doesn't have thought (vitakka and vicara - applied and sustained thought), but he applied his mind, though not his thoughts, to different subjects which lead to his awakening: "I entered & remained in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain. But the pleasant feeling that arose in this way did not invade my mind or remain. "When the mind was thus concentrated, purified, bright, unblemished, rid of defilement, pliant, malleable, steady, & attained to imperturbability, I directed it to the knowledge of recollecting my past lives...This was the first knowledge I attained in the first watch of the night.... ...I directed it to the knowledge of the passing away & reappearance of beings...This was the second knowledge I attained in the second watch of the night... ..I directed it to the knowledge of the ending of the mental fermentations. I discerned, as it had come to be, that 'This is stress... This is the origination of stress... This is the cessation of stress... This is the way leading to the cessation of stress... These are fermentations... This is the origination of fermentations... This is the cessation of fermentations... This is the way leading to the cessation of fermentations.' My heart, thus knowing, thus seeing, was released from the fermentation of sensuality, released from the fermentation of becoming, released from the fermentation of ignorance. With release, there was the knowledge, 'Released.' I discerned that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world." MN 36 IMO, this may be the distinction that is made in zen between not- thinking and non-thinking. The buddha did not apply thought, because thoughts are ways of chopping up experience into bits, a bit like trying to look at a large area with a small flashlight. But he did apply his mind, which is better able to perceive the big picture. -DaveK

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]]> Thu, 15 May 2008 09:42:32 PDT http://www.nnseek.com/e/talk.religion.buddhism/got_a_usps_money_order_11424840445_for_116164231t.html http://www.nnseek.com/e/talk.religion.buddhism/got_a_usps_money_order_11424840445_for_116164231t.html

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]]> Wed, 14 May 2008 21:17:33 PDT http://www.nnseek.com/e/talk.religion.buddhism/karma_116091527t.html http://www.nnseek.com/e/talk.religion.buddhism/karma_116091527t.html

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]]> Wed, 14 May 2008 11:04:01 PDT http://www.nnseek.com/e/talk.religion.buddhism/hey_china_the_huge_earthquake_is_fucking_payback_for_115998599t.html http://www.nnseek.com/e/talk.religion.buddhism/hey_china_the_huge_earthquake_is_fucking_payback_for_115998599t.html : > And what about karma? This disaster which met the Chinese people was > actually caused by the actions of the Chinese government. Karma has nothing to do with this as far as i know, earthquakes are not caused by human karma but by nature. Kind regards, Peter -- mailto:peter@dharma.dyndns.biz

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]]> Wed, 14 May 2008 00:11:51 PDT http://www.nnseek.com/e/talk.religion.buddhism/the_rope_115984263t.html http://www.nnseek.com/e/talk.religion.buddhism/the_rope_115984263t.html Robert Epstein said: >> Thread Terminating Skinhead Demon! wrote: >> >>> Robert Epstein wrote: >>> >>>> Invisible Lurker wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Confucius say: Man who smell bad and go to >>>>> church sit in own pew. >>>> >>>> Yes, truly; and "man who go to sleep with hard problem wake up with >>>> solution in hand!" >>>> >>>> Also, [HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL ALERT/HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL >>>> ALERT/SOPHISTICATED PEOPLE PLEASE DO NOT READ WHAT FOLLOWS:] >>>> >>>> "Woman who wear jock strap have makebelieve ballroom." >>> >>> Of course, we can't forget the classics: >>> >>> "Woman who fly plane upside down have crack up" >> >> Okay, I must post it: >> "Secretary not permanent fixture until screwed on desk." > > Man who have hole in pocket have right to feel cocky all day. > > Woman with large genitals provide very wholesome meal. > > HEY...THIS IS A GREAT IDEA FOR A CONTEST AND > A WEB PAGE ! > > Best Original Confucius Say Contest!!! > > send entries to ansaman@gmail.com > > I will provide a URL shortly. > > Enter as many times as you wish. > > If I get a dozen entries or more, it will be cool! > > (The woman entry above is original, but I bet you > guys can do better) Here are some more to warm you up (not original) Passionate kiss like spider's web, soon lead to undoing of fly. Virginity like bubble, one prick all gone. Squirrel who runs up woman's leg not find nuts. Foolish man give wife grand piano, wise man give wife upright organ. Baby born in car with automatic transmission, grow to become shiftless bastard. Anybody want to try? -- Invisible Lurker Now with tons more compassion and correctness! A kinder, gentler lurker!

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]]> Tue, 13 May 2008 22:24:58 PDT http://www.nnseek.com/e/talk.religion.buddhism/ping_robert_epstein_115969415t.html http://www.nnseek.com/e/talk.religion.buddhism/ping_robert_epstein_115969415t.html ---*=# wrote: > > didn't want to post this due to how the digital camera > being so cheap it makes the painting look completely > different and changed the tone values drastically but > anyway this is a black and white i did of > tiffani amber theissen. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > thanks jen, I can see that you can't really see the original values, but it still looks to be a very nice work, and worth seeing your style which has a nice life to it. how did you get it into the message template? Robert - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

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]]> Tue, 13 May 2008 19:44:30 PDT http://www.nnseek.com/e/talk.religion.buddhism/ping_robert_epstein_115923591t.html http://www.nnseek.com/e/talk.religion.buddhism/ping_robert_epstein_115923591t.html ---*=#" hotmail.com> wrote in message news:dOCdnUpHDLdLT7TVnZ2dnUVZ_v3inZ2d@earthlink.com... > > didn't want to post this due to how the digital camera > being so cheap it makes the painting look completely > different and changed the tone values drastically but > anyway this is a black and white i did of > tiffani amber theissen.

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]]> Tue, 13 May 2008 13:38:20 PDT http://www.nnseek.com/e/talk.religion.buddhism/upaya_buddhist_chaplaincy_program_invites_new_appl_115920775t.html http://www.nnseek.com/e/talk.religion.buddhism/upaya_buddhist_chaplaincy_program_invites_new_appl_115920775t.html upaya.org, and see http://www.upaya.org/training/chaplaincy.php

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]]> Tue, 13 May 2008 13:06:16 PDT http://www.nnseek.com/e/talk.religion.buddhism/my_painting_115904647t.html http://www.nnseek.com/e/talk.religion.buddhism/my_painting_115904647t.html http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=b8trty&s=3

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]]> Tue, 13 May 2008 10:49:48 PDT http://www.nnseek.com/e/talk.religion.buddhism/where_is_oxtail_formerly_stumper_115824775t.html http://www.nnseek.com/e/talk.religion.buddhism/where_is_oxtail_formerly_stumper_115824775t.html

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