'Confucius' notions of individual freedom and societal harmony are universal.'
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'Confucius' notions of individual freedom and societal harmony are universal.'         

Group: soc.culture.hongkong · Group Profile
Author: abianchen
Date: Jul 22, 2008 16:03

Rusty OLD FOOL, you should not blame Confucius for your ignorance. You
should blame your chop suey parents keeping you in their chop suey
restaurant kitchen too long that made you a chop suey idiot. Now, here
is another Confucianism for you to learn, let's see if you can be less
chop suey idiot!

Your Confucius

'Confucius' notions of individual freedom and societal harmony are
universal.'

In all the discussion about the hand-over of Hong Kong, the majority
of commentators have only taken sides: whether the communist Chinese
way is right or not. In this final instalment before July 1, 1997, CAP
explores the only way for China to govern Hong Kong and itself: the
principles of Confucius - the same ones that brought prosperity to
Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore, and, to a lesser extent, Japan

A L L O W U S to get a common misconception out of the way: first,
Confucianism is not a religion, but a philosophy. And it's very likely
the only lasting solution for good government in China. Most readers
not versed with the history of China may be asking at this point, 'How
can a Chinese who lived 2,500 years ago have any relevance for
today?'
The examples of Singapore - where Confucius is acknowledged as the
one who has provided them with their economic and social policies,
even by Senior Minister and former prime minister Lee Kuan Yew - and
Taiwan serve to remind us how sometimes ancient philosophies still
work to bring economic success and a peaceful society. Even more
importantly, Confucianism is a philosophy about free wills, not about
state control, which is compatible with the western notion that a
person should determine his or her own destiny.

The ideas behind Confucianism
Confucius himself lived in the "war nation" era in China. Born in 551
B.C., he was a contemporary of Buddha but his ideas were quite
different. While Buddha spoke of the after-life, Confucius was a down-
to-earth visionary who tried to find the best way for a society to be
run.
Faced with an unstable China run by feudal lords, Confucius tried
to find a "hook" that everyone would understand. His solution:
harmony. The concept was familiar with all Chinese, epitomized in the
Ying and the Yang, that everything has its equal opposite for a
natural balance. Taken to the societal level, he believed that
societies and nations would be more stable if there were a two-way
flow of duties: the people's duty to work for the development of the
state would be balanced by the government's duty to care for the
people and to provide for their welfare.
If the everyday people could see that the government cared, then
they would in turn be more happy to be under that government. This is
clearly lacking in some nations who are discontent with the way they
are governed, and it can be usually traced to their anger with
corruption in high places, or an irresponsible president or prime
minister.
Then what about each person's free will? Doesn't this mean that
every person has his place, with government and commoners? No,
believed Confucius, introducing the second principle of morality. If
everyone had morality, he reasoned, they would not need to be
governed. The government would not need to regulate, impose fines or
use the law to punish. State intervention would then be at a minimum,
leading to efficient government.
For instance, Confucius believed formal laws were only used to
oppress people by régimes, while moral principles depended on each
person's free will. The use of penal law, reasoned Confucius, would
lead to people avoiding punishments and lacking a sense of shame.
Leadership with virtue and morality, practised and preached, would
have the opposite outcome, leaving people get on with life in an
orderly fashion and staying within what is accepted as moral and
decent. Interestingly, the interpretations of morality and decency can
change with the society and the era.
So anyone has the potential to be a leader, as long as that person
has a strong sense of morality. He must win the confidence of his
superior and his friends first.
Also central is the ability to refrain from committing immoral
acts. Confucius considered if people left their desires uncontrolled,
they are no better than animals. Civility is critical.
So here is a philosophy that promotes decent human relationships,
efficient governments, freedom for the individual and morality. It's
not even sexist - prejudice of any sort was not tolerated.

OK, but even communism works in theory
Here's the most interesting part about Confucianism: China has
implemented it over the last 2,500 years and each time it has worked
for long periods. The times when it fell down was when a corrupt
emperor came on the scene and used laws to oppress people, for
instance, during the time of the Mongols in the thirteenth century,
and in 1585 during the Ming dynasty. Confucian policies during the
Sung dynasty (the Marco Polo visits came during this time), when China
was the undoubted global superpower with the world's highest standard
of living and prosperity, meant that China was a peaceful nation, not
a threat to any other state.
Most recently, variants of Confucianism appear in Singapore and
Taiwan. While there are strict laws there, one can see they are seldom
implemented. Singapore, for instance, follows Confucius' ideas of
minimizing legal formality but having just a sitting judge on cases.
Laws are not used to oppress people in the Asian tiger economies - and
that is the most visible difference between them and the traditional
common and civil law systems in the west. Where there is conflict, the
Confucian solution is to negotiate, compromise, and find consensus and
harmony. What can be found is a stronger community feeling in the
Confucian society.
There are giant state-run enterprises, however, in Taiwan, but that
is seen more as a function of the state looking after the people so
they can get on with their work, whether that be in the private or
public sector.
What is out of hand in some Asian economies, including Taiwan, is
corruption - something that would not happen in the orderly Confucian
society. Indeed, Singapore, a fairly corruption-free city-state, is
the closest living example of Confucianism and a traditional Chinese
society at work.
What about Singapore's control, say, of the internet? Surely
Confucius advocated freedom of speech? That is true - he believed in
free speech as long as it was articulated in a reasonable and
civilized way. Ideally, Singaporeans would be able to see whatever
material was on the 'net and make the choice between what is
acceptable and what is not. Censorship of the internet is, we feel,
not the way approved by Confucius. We do understand that Singapore
feels that immoral literature on the 'net or in the press is harmful
to her brand of national harmony, and has approached the censorship
from that angle.
What is approved by Confucius is democracy which functions through
participation and not through conflicting claims to rights. Education
is also key - witness how Taiwanese families sent their children to
learn high-tech skills in the 1950s, who later returned to build up
that country's current position in technology and computing. It was an
initiative supported by the government; in return, the students helped
build up the nation.
Similar forces were at work with Hong Kong families. Although not
funded by the state, at the least HK citizens could leave the colony
to get education elsewhere - education which, ultimately, would be
used to build up the technology and knowledge of the colony's
professionals. In Hong Kong, Confucian philosophies were at the
foundation of many of the leading Hong Kong Chinese-owned
corporations. The freedom of speech in Hong Kong has been successful,
too - the proliferation of media actually provides citizens with
information with which they can make up their own minds. China,
regrettably, sees the media as tools for manipulating the citizenry -
allegedly the same thing happens in many western nations, although it
is somewhat better hidden.

Why isn't it in place in mainland China?
Looking through Chinese history, formal laws and bureaucracy are
indicative of régimes wanting to seize political control. Confucianism
was banned in Communist China as the leaders believed it would prove
harmful to them. Chairman Mao believed that the stability that
Confucianism provided would be an impediment to his authority,
according to legal writer Forte. This was, in fact, foolish on the
part of the Politburo in Beijing: the reality is that Confucianism
could have potentially made China easier to govern for the Chinese
leaders. Today, China finds that her Marxism is not compatible with
the late Deng Xioping's Open Door Policy of 1979, or its promise to
keep Hong Kong unchanged after 1997.
Li Zehou of the Colorado College feels that Confucianism fills the
void of China's damaged faith in Marxism. Prof Li believes it is the
philosophy most compatible with Chinese culture.
If so, then the Chinese government should take heed of Prof Li's
viewpoint. In fact, some Chinese government-sponsored scholars have
set up conferences on Confucianism. Now, if the Beijing administration
can see to getting to the next stage - acting on the conferences'
findings and principles - then there is a chance of success for
preserving the way of life in Hong Kong, but efficient government of
China herself.

Corporate Confucianism
How about enterprises? The "family feeling" promoted in Asian
businesses, from family-owned trading companies in Hong Kong to the
largest Korean chaebols, is an example of Confucianism at work. If the
company looks after the welfare of its team, then team members are
going to be happier working for the good of the company. This family
orientation also manifests itself in the lifetime employment policies.
Because the company wanted to look after its staff's welfare (or had
to, in the case of South Korea), it was the company's duty to find new
things for staff to do once their present tasks became obsolete, e.g.
through automation. This meant retraining in some cases, funded by the
company, so that the staff could work in new industries. Or it meant
the development of new industries - which is why Korean conglomerates
have such diversified portfolios.
But Confucianism is not strictly for China alone, be it in business
or government. As mentioned, its notions of individual freedom and
societal harmony are universal. The concepts of light and dark in the
Ying and the Yang are not exclusively Chinese, either. In fact, there
is potential for Confucianism to be adopted around the world, because
it takes into regard human nature, not just Chinese nature.
If that is Confucianism's wider goal, how will it be implemented?
Importantly, it emphasizes education and morality. If we care about
the wellbeing of the next generation, then it's not too late to start
thinking about putting more community spirit into education
programmes. And since Confucius emphasized trust - trusting your
neighbour, your friend, your boss, and expecting that trust to be
returned - it's about applying those values which we know are right,
but meaning it. It's about refraining from doing things that'll
offend, but instead, building up a decent reputation that will
encourage good networking, business success, and, community spirit.

http://jyanet.com/cap/0613fe0.htm

On Jul 22, 6:57 pm, rst0wxyz yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 22, 3:53 pm, "abianc...@my-deja.com" my-deja.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Rusty OLD FOOL, you should not blame Confucius for your ignorance. You
>
> Why don't you shitcan your words and come to reality.  You are more of
> a big fool than ever before.
>
>
>
>> should blame your chop suey parents keeping you in their chop suey
>> restaurant kitchen too long that made you a chop suey idiot. Now, here
>> is another Confucianism for you to learn, let's see if you can be less
>> chop suey idiot!
>
>> Your Confucius
>
>> Confucianism in Korea
>
>> Although Confucianism was introduced to Korea before Buddhism, its
>> ideological flowering occurred later through the introduction of Neo-
>> Confucianism during the late-Koryo and early-Choson periods. For this
>> reason, we will look at five Confucian thinkers from the Choson
>> period.
>
>> Chong To-jon (1342-1398), styled Sambong, was a thinker who played a
>> central role in overthrowing the Koryo Dynasty and establishing the
>> new Choson Dynasty on the basis of Neo-Confucianism. In his teachings,
>> he elucidated Confucian orthodoxy, claiming that Buddhism and Taoism
>> stood outside of the Confucianism orthodoxy and were thereby
>> heterodox. According to Chong, li (principle) was the basic concept of
>> Confucianism, ki (material force) the basic concept of Taoism and
>> mind, that of Buddhism. Since ki and mind only operated based on li,
>> they could not be used as a basis for philosophy. Chong thus claimed
>> that Taoism and Buddhism were one-sided and incomplete heterodoxies
>> which should be abolished and replaced with orthodox Confucianism. In
>> works such as Choson kyonggukchon, Chong advocated a reordering of
>> society to accord with the times. As a reformer, he advocated social
>> change based on enlightened government and Confucian orthodoxy.
>> Through his efforts, Neo-Confucianism was established as the ideology
>> of the newly formed Choson Dynasty.
>
>> Kwon Kun (1352-1409, styled Yang-ch'on) was a scholar who, along with
>> Chong To-jon, established the Confucian tradition of the Choson
>> Dynasty. He translated the "Four Books and Three Classics" of the
>> Confucian canon from the standpoint of Neo-Confucianism, bringing
>> classical studies to a new height. In his diagram Ch'oninshimsong
>> habiljido, he clarified the concepts of Heaven, man, mind and human
>> nature, laying the foundation for Choson Neo-Confucian thought.
>> Through his research on the classics, he developed Confucian orthodoxy
>> and through his theoretical studies, he prepared the philosophical
>> basis of Neo-Confucianism. In this sense, he served as a prominent
>> leader of Confucian studies of the period.
>
>> Yi Hwang (1501-1570), styled T'oegye, is the scholar who brought
>> Choson Neo-Confucianism into full bloom. In songhak shipto (Ten
>> Diagrams of Sagely Learning) and numerous other writings, he
>> propounded his doctrine that li and ki arise in mutual correspondence.
>> This theory touched off a vigorous debate among Choson Neo-Confucian
>> scholars, which in the end led to extraordinary developments in the
>> school's doctrines. In terms of theory, T'oegye propounded the view
>> that li was dominant. However, instead of stopping at mere theory, he
>> developed a practical teaching method aimed at personal cultivation.
>> Neo-Confucianism is often called, simply, the "study of the Way." With
>> a teaching that encompassed both theoretical reflections as well as
>> practical cultivation, T'oegye can be said to have perfected this
>> teaching. His Neo-Confucian thought gathers the brilliant practical
>> ideals lying within each theory and puts them together to form a
>> whole. In a sense, his theoretical doctrines form the starting point
>> of the study of the Way, while his doctrine of practical cultivation
>> represents its culmination. Thus, T'oegye was not a fundamentalist or
>> a dogmatist, but was rather an intelligent advocate of piety who
>> devoutly sought the practical realization of his ideals.
>
>> Yi I (1536-1584, styled Yulgok), along with T'oegye, was one of the
>> two great masters of Choson Confucianism. Although Yulgok praised
>> T'oegye's philosophy, he criticized many of its theoretical aspects.
>> His numerous written works, including songhak chibyo (Compilation of
>> the Essentials of Sagely Learning), indicate diverse and extensive
>> scholarly interests.
>
>> In Yulgok's thought, that which manifests is ki and that by which it
>> is manifested is li. He thus emphasized that li and ki were an
>> inseparable entity. According to his theory, when ki becomes active,
>> li ascends it so as to become a unity. The fact that Yulgok was able
>> to apply this doctrine to the diverse aspects of his teaching while
>> maintaining logical consistency demonstrates his brilliance as a
>> thinker. His general theory is also related to his theory of
>> government, in which he sets forth numerous programs for social
>> reform. He is remembered as an outstanding intellectual of his time
>> who worked to realize an ideal Confucian society.
>
>> The last figure we will look at is Chong Yak-yong (1762-1836). Styled
>> Tasan, he is a representative Sirhak scholar of the late 19th century.
>> Sirhak (Practical Learning) is an ideology that sought to reform the
>> institutionalized Neo-Confucianism of the Choson period, and thus
>> represents a liberal movement within the Confucian tradition. In order
>> to put an end to the doctrinal disputes that had plagued Neo-
>> Confucianism during the previous two centuries, Tasan felt that it was
>> necessary to elucidate the central teaching of Confucianism. Thus,
>> Tasan began a radical reinterpretation of the vast corpus of Confucian
>> classics. Based on this work, Tasan penned an extensive collection of
>> treatises on government, including his famous work Mongmin shimso (On
>> Leading the People). His theory of government focuses on assuring the
>> livelihood of the people and the nation's legal system. For this
>> reason, his practical philosophy rejected the Neo-Confucian obsession
>> with metaphysics. Instead, it sought to resolve issues affecting the
>> livelihood of the people while encouraging good government capable of
>> helping people during times of crisis. In this sense, Tasan was a
>> forward-looking thinker who sought to reform tradition in response to
>> the needs of the times.
>
>> The five Confucian thinkers discussed above all created monumental
>> works that helped define the history of Korean Confucianism. As can be
>> seen, Choson-era Confucian scholars placed great importance on a pious
>> fidelity to their tradition. For this reason, they had a very
>> exclusive attitudes towards other religions. In this light, they
>> certainly appear to be self-righteous. Yet if we reach a more
>> comprehensive understanding of these five thinkers, we discover
>> something quite different. Instead of clinging to Neo-Confucian dogma,
>> they sought to elucidate the ideals of Neo-Confucianism according to
>> their historical circumstances and reform the societies in which they
>> lived. Understood within this context, they must not be seen as
>> exclusive dogmatist, but as creative intellectuals.
>
>> In Korea, the representative Buddhist and Confucian thinkers were not
>> interested in theory for its own sake. Instead, they utilized their
>> independent intellectual abilities to elucidate religious ideals
>> within the context of their unique historical reality. This
>> intellectual attitude has formed the basis of Korea's ancient
>> classical culture. From the Three Kingdoms through the Choson period,
>> countless Buddhist and Confucian thinkers have left their legacy of
>> refined philosophical works as well as beautiful, practical examples
>> of their search for human ideals. For this reason, Korea, even more
>> than China or Japan, has been able to preserve Confucianism and
>> Buddhism in their classical forms.
>
>
>> On Jul 22, 5:44 pm, rst0wxyz yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> On Jul 22, 9:29 am, "abianc...@my-deja.com" my-deja.com>
>>> wrote:
>
>>>> Rusty OLD FOOL,
>
>>> son-of-a-bitch abum_chump filthy dirty potbelly pig, you continue to
>>> puke the same shit on the internet.
>
>>>>here's another Confucianism for you to learn. Let's
>
>>> To be fools like you and PaPaPend? God forbids (using god's name in
>>> vain)!!
>
>>>> see if you can be less chop suey idiot!
>
>>> You should work in a chop suey house to learn some manners.  You
>>> certainly don't have any.  Confucius died 2,500 years ago.  He was a
>>> failure in life, like you and PaPaPend.  An adult like you still lives
>>> on your grandfather's money.  You should crawl into a hole and die.
>
>>>> Confucianism in Japan
>
>>>> Although not practiced as a religion, Confucianism from China has
>>>> deeply influenced Japanese thought. In essence, Confucianism is the
>>>> practice of proper forms of conduct, especially in social and familial
>>>> relationships. It is derived from compilations attributed to the fifth-
>>>> century B.C. Chinese philosopher Kong Fuzi or Kongzi (Confucius; in
>>>> Japanese, Koshi). Confucian government was to be a moral government,
>>>> bureaucratic in form and benevolent toward the ruled. Confucianism
>>>> also provided a hierarchical system, in which each person was to act
>>>> according to his or her status to create a harmoniously functioning
>>>> society and ensure loyalty to the state. The teachings of filial piety
>>>> and humanity continue to form the foundation for much of social life
>>>> and ideas about family and nation.
>
>>>> Neo-Confucianism, introduced to Japan in the twelfth century, is an
>>>> interpretation of nature and society based on metaphysical principles
>>>> and is influenced by Buddhist and Daoist ideas. In Japan, where it is
>>>> known as Shushigaku (Shushi School, after the Chinese neo-Confucian
>>>> scholar Zhu Xi--Shushi in Japanese), it brought the idea that family
>>>> stability and social
>
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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