Your reply has nothing to do with Mao's brutal rule which caused the
death of tens of millions of Chinese people. Like I said, tell us what
part of videos that showed Mao's brutal rule untrue!!!
Anyway, go ahead, keep denying, keep downplaying... I post the videos
for everyone so netters watch the videos can make their own judgement.
Oh, I save it in the file and will post it regularly to let people
know your beloved CCP's horror past from 1949 to 1976.
On Jul 29, 5:21 pm, ltlee1
hotmail.com> wrote:> On Jul 29, 4:52 pm, abian_c...@
yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> Blame the west for Mao's brutal rule??? You are really something.
>
> ?????
> Did I write something not factual in my previous post? Did the west
> nnot sanctioning China economically at that time? Did such sanction
> not adversely affect the lives of hte Chiense people?
>
>> Like
>> I said, watch the following videos to undertand Mao's Great Leap
>> Forward and how Chinese people suffered because of Mao's stupid
>> movement:
>
>
> This video featured Mao's personal physician. In his book, he had
> detailed the metting between Mao and Deng. In response to America's
> nuclear bomb threat, Mao asked Deng to establish the "third front" as
> a way to spread out China's industrial capability which was
> concentrated in the northeastern provinces. Such effort later turned
> into the blind alley examplifed by "earthy way to extract steel."
>
>
>
>
>> On Jul 29, 4:40 pm, ltlee1
hotmail.com> wrote:>
>>> On Jul 29, 3:48 pm, abian_c...@
yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>>> Here's video chip of "China - A Century of Revolution - Mao's Years"
>>>> so why dont you watch it yourself, ok! The cheating was widespread.
>>>> Alot of people knew about it but few dared to speak out. PRC defense
>>>> minister Peng De-hwei spoke out but later was murdered by Mao.
>
>
>>>> Oh, please do continue to twist, cover up so eventually everyone here
>>>> will know what happened during Mao's brutal rule. Ok!
>
>>> tobe sure, life is brutal when a country is poor. In addition, China
>>> was handicapped by western economic sanctions. So, I don't and I have
>>> no need to dispute brutal life under Mao's. Nor am I disputing the
>>> reality of many Chinese had died as the results of three years of
>>> natural disaster.
>
>>> However, the issue under discussion is more specific. You wanted to
>>> link the famine to Mao's policy. But you had provided no fact.
>>> Articles from wikepedia uplinked by unknown people adds only
>>> conjectures. For example, it said deep plowing was a problem but then
>>> it supplied no concerte evidence such as which commune had redced its
>>> per acre output by how much after switching to deep plowing. Other
>>> accusation does not even make sense.
>
>>> You are welcomed to criticize China, past or present. I have no
>>> problem with that. However, you need to be based on fact. Not on cold
>>> war rhetoric.
>
>>>> On Jul 29, 3:35 pm, ltlee1
hotmail.com> wrote:>
>>>>> On Jul 29, 2:54 pm, abian_c...@
yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>>>>> Below are two links, one from wiikpedia. Another one from China's
>>>>>> website to tell how CCP officials cheated crop production number to
>>>>>> central government in order to please Mao for his Great Leap
>>>>>> Forward...Now tell us if those are mis-management..
>
>>>>>> "Until the early 1980s, the Chinese Government's stance, reflected by
>>>>>> the name "Three Years of Natural Disasters", was that the famine was
>>>>>> largely a result of a series of natural disasters compounded by some
>>>>>> planning errors. Researchers outside China, however, generally agree
>>>>>> that massive institutional and policy changes which accompanied the
>>>>>> Great Leap Forward were the key factors in the famine.[1] Since the
>>>>>> 1980s there has been greater official Chinese recognition of the
>>>>>> importance of policy mistakes in causing the disaster, claiming that
>>>>>> the disaster was 35%% due to natural causes and 65%% by mismanagement.
>
>>>>>> During the Great Leap Forward, farming was organized into communes and
>>>>>> the cultivation of private plots forbidden. This forced
>>>>>> collectivisation substantially reduced the incentives for peasants to
>>>>>> work well. Iron and steel production was identified as a key
>>>>>> requirement for economic advancement. Millions of peasants were
>>>>>> ordered away from agricultural work to join the iron and steel
>>>>>> production workforce.
>
>>>>>> Along with collectivisation, the central Government decreed several
>>>>>> changes in agricultural techniques based on the ideas of Russian
>>>>>> pseudo-scientist Trofim Lysenko. One of these ideas was close
>>>>>> planting, whereby the density of seedlings was at first tripled and
>>>>>> then doubled again. The theory was that plants of the same species
>>>>>> would not compete with each other. In practice they did, which stunted
>>>>>> growth and resulted in lower yields. Another policy was based on the
>>>>>> ideas of Lysenko's colleague Teventy Maltsev, who encouraged peasants
>>>>>> across China to plow deeply into the soil (up to 1 or 2 meters). They
>>>>>> believed the most fertile soil was deep in the earth, allowing extra
>>>>>> strong root growth. However, useless rocks, soil, and sand were driven
>>>>>> up instead, burying the topsoil."
>
>
>>>>>> "一九六一年的大饥荒中，当时主政四川的"西南王"李井泉，不顾老百姓死活，拼命迎合毛泽东"大跃进"的思路，以讨好最高领袖来巩固自己的地位。为了给
>>>>>> 中央上缴远远超过实际产量的粮食，他在四川农村横征暴敛，使得有"天府之国"美誉的成都平原也陷入千年不遇的饥饿之中。"
>
>>>>> Don't even make sense. I am sure that some officials lied about the
>>>>> harvest to please Mao and etc. But the lleaders as well as the memebrs
>>>>> of the communes knew the truth. They knew how much grain they had
>>>>> harvested. They also knew how much they need. If you ran a commune of
>>>>> several hundred people, would you send the exaggerated amount of grain
>>>>> away if you barely had enough? Of course not. What then?
>
>>>>> If you were an individual, government official could certainly send
>>>>> some thugs to take all your grains by force. Collectivism was exactly
>>>>> the antidote to such governmental abuses. If the government did the
>>>>> same thing to a commune of several to thousands of people, it
>>>>> certainly needed to send a small army to do the job. The world would
>>>>> certainly notice such miltary action if widespread.
>
>
>>>>>> On Jul 29, 2:41 pm, ltlee1
hotmail.com> wrote:>
>>>>>>> On Jul 29, 2:28 pm, abian_c...@
yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>>>>>>> 自然灾害 (natural disaster)??? Great Chinese Famine was not just natural
>>>>>>>> disaster but also more man made disaster.
>
>>>>>>>> "Since the 1980s there has been greater official Chinese recognition
>>>>>>>> of the importance of policy mistakes in causing the disaster, claiming
>>>>>>>> that the disaster was 35%% due to natural causes and 65%% by
>>>>>>>> mismanagement."
>
>>>>>>> Since you are eager to link the starvation to policy, give me some
>>>>>>> facts. For instance, what policy led to what?
>
>
>>>>>>>> You are in the states, why dont you rent Chinese documentary film
>>>>>>>> "China: A Century of Revolution" from netflix.
>
>>>>>>>> Also, at that time, your beloved CCP did not allow investigation so
>>>>>>>> the number was estimation. Several Chinese professors from top
>>>>>>>> universites in China in different years (after 1980) estimated the
>>>>>>>> death toll from 17 million to 40 million. I just took most
>>>>>>>> conservative number 17 million, the death toll could be even higher!!!
>
>>>>>>>> Also, read the reader forun on the link you provided, many of them
>>>>>>>> disagreed with the author!!!
>
>>>>>>>> On Jul 29, 2:04 pm, ltlee1
hotmail.com> wrote:>
>>>>>>>>> On Jul 29, 10:40 am, abian_c...@
yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>>> Here's source from China's website, estimated 17 millon Chinese people
>>>>>>>>>> starved to death during Great Chinese Famine (1959-1961) because your
>>>>>>>>>> Mao's "Great Invention" - Great Leap Forward!!!
>
>>>>>>>>>> "西安交大蒋振华教授在1986年和1987年，与李南共同发表两篇文章。他们经研究、推算认为：三年大饥荒，中国非正常死亡人口大约为1700
>>>>>>>>>> 万。"
>
>
>>>>>>>>> Thank you for the link. But it is obviious from the above link their
>>>>>>>>> figure was not generally accepted. Hence,
>
>>>>>>>>> "2005年9月，中国民政局官员在新闻发布会上说："三年自然灾害"的数字"我们不掌握"。"
>
>>>>>>>>> In addition, they certainly do not link the "unatural death" with
>>>>>>>>> Mao's policy. In general, I agree with the following article
>
>
>>>>>>>>> Technical problems aside, the number of unnatural death is a fake
>>>>>>>>> question. Assuming the best of circumstance, that is, vital statistics
>>>>>>>>> were accurate and well kept, the calculated figure still reflects what
>>>>>>>>> we don't know more than what we know.. Needless to say, there were no
>>>>>>>>> accurate statistics on the 3 years under discussion.
>
>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 29, 10:30 am, ltlee1
hotmail.com> wrote:>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 29, 10:02 am, baldeagle
yahoo.com.sg> wrote:>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 29, 9:34 pm, "abianc...@
my-deja.com"
my-deja.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mao's Great Leap Forward caused 17 million Chinese people starve to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> death.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You
>
> ...
>
> read more >>- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
