On May 24, 5:58 am, beginanew
yahoo.com> wrote:> KD,
>
> I know what you're saying, and I do believe you, and that the
> government of Australia did the right thing in defending their
> citizens.
>
> In addition, I don't think it's a stretch to infer that all this is a
> simple game of Good Cop/Bad Cop that the Lao government (and officials
> of all levels) are employing. Absent any contrary views to the wishes
> of the Politburo and Party bosses, they will always play both sides of
> the fences to ensure only one possible outcome of each and every
> circumstance. After all, at the end of the day, there's even such
> things as 'face' that needs saving. So, it doesn't matter if it was
> your arrest or imprisonment, the Laotians in the jungle, the 21
> missing girls, or any other domestic or international issue...the
> tactics have been the same.
>
> It's a no-brainer that all higher ranking officials all the way up the
> chain of command will usually end up being the good guys, and the
> lower level folks will take the fall and be the bad guys. The supreme
> leaders take the high road of passionate justice for all and even
> throw in some pardons...while a few, if any, dispensable bureaucrats
> are made into examples.
>
> If one believes the principles set forth by the LPRP and the
> stakeholders of the Lao nation, then the actions and behaviors of
> people like DKJ and Yong are to be treated in the same manner as if
> they are coming from Dr. Sisoulith or President Choummaly Sayasone. In
> the same manner, aside from all comrades being equal, whatever
> decisions and policies flowing from the top, needs to be consistent
> all the way down to people like DKJ and Yong. If this is NOT the case,
> then as in your case with Lengsavad, they ought to at least suffer the
> consequences.
>
> Anyway, the Good Cop/Bad Cop tactics is classic on how any regime
> holds onto power and influence. And a sure sign that a nation can
> ensure itself a long and arduous road ahead...especially if it wants
> to improve its standing in the world in any category.
>
> If such seemingly educated and sophisticated people like Yong
> Chanthalangsy can't get beyond the confines of erratic online
> behaviors and civil discourse without resorting to violence (verbal as
> well as physical threats)...on these internet forums...well, that's my
> point...what real hope does Laos have for the long haul in dealing
> with a world becoming more interdependent than ever before?
>
> On May 23, 3:35 am, KD
yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
>
>>> On May 23, 1:07 pm, beginanew
yahoo.com> wrote:>
>>> KD,
>
>>> DKJ, an official with the Lao government, still needs to clarify and
>>> held responsible to the threat he recently made to send you back to
>>> prison in Laos for stealing the assets of the Lao nation.
>
>>> His answer has been a barrage of new and unrelated propaganda...as
>>> usual.
>
>>> On May 22, 8:47 pm, KD
yahoo.com.au> wrote:>
>>>> On May 22, 10:19 pm, Crazy Larry
yahoo.com> wrote:>
>>>>> On May 22, 12:50 am, KD
yahoo.com.au> wrote:>
>>>>>> Hi Jim,
>
>>>>>> You got it right. ai Yong is not stupid. He knows that when he is in
>>>>>> Laos he must be careful what he says but when he comes to Australia,
>>>>>> he can talk the truth. It's okay here... no one will harm him or
>>>>>> threaten to through him in Victoria prison. 555-
>
>>>>> I'm sure the word you are using 'through' should be 'throw'.
>
>>>>> As far as your response to Jim goes, has Thanouxay committed any crime
>>>>> in Australia? Did Thanouxay steal anything from Australia? Did he
>>>>> promise to pay any fines or retribution to Australia? Was Thanouxay
>>>>> charged with any crimes in Australia? Is Thanouxay convicted of any
>>>>> wrong doing in Australia? Is Thanouxay a wanted man in Australia?
>
>>>>> Well, why then should he be afraid to go Australia?
>
>>>>> Someone in here wrote that you stole from Laos and still owe Laos
>>>>> $1,000,000.00. You and your husband has admitted such on Australian
>>>>> TV. I can see why you would not set foot back in Laos, but is there
>>>>> any reason why Thanouxay should avoid Australia?
>
>>>> Crazy Larry..... you sound like an old broken record to me. You
>>>> believe whatever is written in newspapers? You believe whatever your
>>>> friend or someone else tells you? Just because he said or she said...
>>>> does that really make it so? Can you not think for yourself. How do
>>>> you think I can live in freedom without some sort of retribution? Do
>>>> you honestly believe that the Laos government would allow me to wander
>>>> around the place freely and not seek my return through extradition, if
>>>> they in fact, wanted me back?
>
>>>> I never stole anything from Laos nor was I charged with stealing
>>>> sapphires. In fact, if you want to truly understand the charges that
>>>> were laid then see below. As boring as this is to keep repeating...;
>
>>>> Embezzlement of state assets. [Sentenced 4 years] The Lao court
>>>> convicted the Danes on the sole basis that it moved State assets
>>>> [office furniture] without first seeking permission from the Laos
>>>> Government to move the assets. These assets were not State owned at
>>>> the time and the Laos authorities had not yet seized control of Gem
>>>> Mining Lao. Laos Securicor was contractually obliged to Gem Mining Lao
>>>> and moved the office furniture and two computers belonging to Gem
>>>> Mining Lao at their request and under advice from their respective
>>>> lawyers. These items were safely stored at Lao Securicor's security
>>>> headquarters and were returned to the Laos authorities, six months
>>>> later, upon seizure of Gem Mining Laos. The Laos Authorities did not
>>>> arrest the Danes at the time of seizure, nor did they make any
>>>> complaint at the way in which the assets were secured.
>
>>>> Destruction of evidence. The Danes were charge with destruction of
>>>> evidence after the Laos Government ordered that in moving the two
>>>> computers for storage that the data had been destroyed. The data
>>>> remained in tact and a back up copy was stored at Lao Securicor. The
>>>> computers were returned in tact at the request of Laos authorities
>>>> upon seizure of Gem Mining Laos. The Laos Authorities did not make any
>>>> complaint at the way in which the computers were secured and used the
>>>> data from the computers as evidence to convict the GML Directors,
>>>> claiming the data was evidence that GML were stealing their own
>>>> assets. Neither of the Danes were employees of Gem Mining Lao and had
>>>> no involvement in its day to day operation.
>
>>>> Violation of Tax Regulations. The Laos Government ruled that it was
>>>> entitled to collect revenue from Kay Danes' International Bodyguard
>>>> Company. The company was established in Thailand and operated external
>>>> to Laos, thereby it was entirely outside the jurisdiction of Laos so
>>>> the Laos Government was not entitled to any revenue from the company.
>>>> Taxes were rendered to Thailand and a full audit by KPMG chartered
>>>> accountants refuted allegations of tax evasion. Evidence submitted to
>>>> the court proved that income tax was paid by the Danes to the Lao Tax
>>>> Revenue Department over two years, for all income the Danes derived in
>>>> Laos as employees of Lao Securicor Company Limited.
>
>>>> In June 2001, the Lao court returned to me US$150,000 from my account
>>>> that it seized. But during the negotiations for our release in
>>>> November 2001, they requested I give them the money as a show of
>>>> goodwill. Of course, I knew that they'd probably already divided it up
>>>> amongst themselves so what was the point asking it back. At that time,
>>>> I just wanted to go home to my children and put the whole ordeal
>>>> behind us.
>
>>>> At no time before, during or after did the Laos Prosecution or any
>>>> other Lao authority provide the Danes, their Lawyers, or the
>>>> Australian Government, with copies of any statement or document which
>>>> were apparently relied upon by the Prosecution at the Court hearing.
>
>>>> The Australian Ambassador to Laos, H.E. Jonathan Thwaites - "Let's be
>>>> clear about the Danes, the Australian Government will not let this
>>>> matter rest until we have what we want, the Danes release. They are
>>>> innocent. They have been caught up in power plays."
>
>>>> At a meeting in Hanoi, Foreign Minister Alexander Downer negotiated a
>>>> settlement. The Danes would withdraw their Supreme Court appeal and
>>>> pay one million dollars compensation. this was negotiated because the
>>>> Danes refused to enter a guilty plea. It was the only negotiation that
>>>> FM Somsavat Lengasavad would accept. FM Downer's task force was sent
>>>> to Laos to inform the Danes that the only way the Australian
>>>> Government could secure their freedom was for the Danes to 'say' they
>>>> would pay compensation to Laos but that no one 'expected' them to pay.
>
>>>> H.E. Ambassador Thwaites stated to Tzovaras [Danes lawyer] "They [Laos
>>>> Government] want specific compensation. They want something that ties
>>>> it to some sort of acknowledgement that, the Danes are somehow
>>>> responsible, and in fact, you and I know that they're not.
>
>>>> The Danes lawyer Ted Tzovaras responded, "He [Mr. Downer] committed
>>>> them [the Danes] to pay just over a million dollars Australian,
>>>> knowing full well that the Danes had no means of paying anything near
>>>> that order."
>
>>>> H.E Ambassador Thwaites said to ABC television [Australian Story]
>>>> "It's very difficult for the Lao authorities to accept that there's
>>>> anything much wrong with a situation where people may take the rap for
>>>> something that they didn't do. As they said to us on a number of
>>>> occasions, if the Danes had been released, where does that leave us?
>>>> How can we get the compensation for all the damage that has been done
>>>> to the Lao people over the years
>
> ...
>
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>
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Beginanew.....
You hit the nail right on the head with your analogy of Good Cop/Bad
Cop. It sums up many of their behaviours. I always thought that the
Politburo had ultimate control but it doesn't appear to be the case.
Or do they just take the cream off the top?
When President Siphandone issued the decree in 1999 against
corruption. It was the first time that anyone could speak of
corruption. But even under his directive, it seemed that nothing
changed. Was he just talking for the international community? did he
want to simply instil confidence for investors and World Bank?
someone asked me the other day if life was any different under the
Royalist system. I couldn't answer them because I've only ever known
what it is like under the communist system. Perhaps it has always been
this way?
One is afraid and the other is terrified. Christopher Kremmer's book
'bamboo palace'.. gave me so much food for thought. When he tried to
ask deep questions ... they were avoided. It was like the past didn't
exist. How can someone forget the past because isn't that where the
lessons are that we all learn from?
It seemd to me like the whole country was in denial. anyone who
questioned was made dissappear. Anyone who disagreed or had their own
opinion, was outcast. Anyone who merely raised an objection was an
enemy to be hated. It's a difficult logic for me to understand and
doesn't seem at all very Buddhist? But then I understood because
Kremmer also explained that the Buddhist religion was used by the Laos
Govt to ensure the people did everything they were told.
what makes me upset is that these low level administrators can cause
such destruction of other people's lives and for a long time, I
thought they got away with it. But then I learned that their karma had
turned on them and they lost positions, power and privledge. Whereas,
my karma has gone from good to great and I am more than I ever was as
a human being, in personal security, financially and success. I have
learned that even through the darkest moments of ones life, if one
stays true to their integrity, then they will endure whatever may
come.
