Ctj, I agreed with you in 100%%. Hmong used money for infeasibility. Their
attentions didn't help survivors. They attempted to dump every thing in the
trash for their happiness.

Marxfree

"ctj" nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3810e3678ac1b22ae16507ad6091fe9f@localhost.talkaboutculture.com...

ctj and al,

Let me share my view on this issue:

There are ways improve and it will almost be some radical changes.
Let quickly reveal the "problems":

Qeej tus siav, tsa nees, qhuabkev and txivxaiv are required items.
Qeej tus siav, tsa nees, qhuabkev can be done in one day
Txiv xais is an option that usually be will considered by the elders.
It is the most consuming item and last
about 24 h with a laissez faire attitude.

To have a proper burial it will still require 3 and 1/2 days.
I still agree that this is still the minimum time. After all what is
the rush to spend the 3 and 1/2 days with the loved one?

First day, usualy is a Friday, from 8 to 7 PM ( allow people to paid a
visit after work)
Proper dressing, Qeej tus siav, tsa nees, qhuabkev may be all executed.
All the cultural requirement is met. It is not necessary to stay over
night. In fact it is beneficial for the family and the guests to rest.
Many of them came from out of state. In addition there is no extrat
charge for the rest of the evening.

Case study based on the sibtham2 model.

I will attempt to break down funeral costs based on the guidelines
provided by sibtham2 for a modest funeral service.

Major Items:

Funeral home rental for three and on half day ~ $7,000
Casket ~ $3,000
Burial plot, Vault, service ~ $10,000
5 cows, (3 for ceremony requirement, 2 for food) ~ $5,000
Spirit release ceremony ~ $2,000

Meals for 300 people 3 times day for 3 days ~ $15,000
Based on 2700 meals at $8 per person
A lot of food is wasted because there is no way to determine how many
people will show. Over preparation is the norm. Most of the food goes
into the dumpster.

In additions there are several smaller meals at the home.

The above cost does not take into account costs of labor.

Ancillary services, misc., and rentals ~ $5,000

Ceremony cost (assuming 10%% 0f total cost) ~ $5,000

Total cost ~ $52,000

Alright B2BH and Beginanew,

If you guys want me to contribute you

Think Tank Question No. 1

The high cost of Hmong funerals threatens the future of burial traditions.
Costs upward of fifty to one hundred thousand dollars are not uncommon.
The sacrifice of ten to twenty cows is expected. One hundred thousand
dollars can be a big down payment on a house. It can put four kids
through college or one student through medical school. Will each
succeeding generation be less willing to bare this high funeral cost? If
not, what needs to be addressed to satisfy current elders

ctj,

you're asking a correct question to the wrong crowd brother. i'm not
talking us sch users. i'm referring to the "elders" as you mentioned.
performing a funeral has nothing to do with "elders." it is up to the
family of the dead...specifically the sons/daughters of the dead.

however, for those of you who are not as exposed to the ritual, you can
save yourself some money by 90%% if you want to. it can be done, and it
will satisfy the funeral requirements.

xob ua tag tag...koj skip los tau. when new year comes...muab tso plig
xwb....tso plig los tua ib tus nyuj at most...thaum pam los..ua ib pluag
noj
xwb....tsi tag yauv ua tag tag...

yaweh

Chong,

I thought the three or four of us are going to leave this forum and
discuss the foundations of a movement that will someday grow into a
major think tank.

Surely, we don't start that important journey with "Think Tank"
questions thrown carelessly into an abyss of internet ghosts.

Though there are sure to be some anecdotal concerns about the high
prices of funerals in the Hmong American community, they are no more
than a true reflection of the available of resources, the satisfaction
of long held family wishes, and the natural mores of our evolving
culture in this 21st century America.

Hmong burial traditions today are not any more threaten by the kind of
high prices (as if they are superficially imposed upon us by some
vicious and evil force) than by those who don't have a clue what it is
in the first place.

ctj,

It is a good question. I agree with many of you that the value of our
traditional practices have shifted into some kind of businesses.

Vajyim

ctj wrote:

Perhaps the ensuing stigma mentality that if you don't spend over 40K
on a funeral for your loved one, you're CHEAP and doesn't conform to
tradition. IMO, if you can change the culture mentality of a people,
you can change any hardcore tradition like the GROSSELY INLFATED hmong
funeral cost.

To cut cost, lets discuss what part[s] of the funeral ritual can we NOT
perform? ]Please chim in those that knows hmong funeral ettiqute
well?] Can we limit 4 days to 2 days [Saturday & Sunday]? If so, what
can be accomplished within these 2 days? How many animal sacrific will
be "surficed" spirtually? Is it necessary to slaugther animal when meat
are readily available for purchase?

please add on....?!

Dear Hmong Fellow,

I totally agree with Beginanew statement about the Hmong funeral high
price. This is up to the individual family to make their own decision.
It does not affect the whole Hmong community. There is other more
important issues for the Think Tank group to discuss and find way to
improve such as the education, the unity and the poverty of the Hmong
community here and around the world.

beginanew wrote: