cher yang,
what a cruel god you have. he did not make heaven or hell for us. we
are not dead but not living. our free-will is endowed only for one
purpose, a purpose that would contradict with the very same device
producing it. *shrug*
xyov
On Aug 1, 12:12 pm, chery...@
sbcglobal.net wrote:
>> On Aug 1, 10:36 am, zhen
gmail.com> wrote:>
>>> cher yang,
>
>>> i am not sure about your exposure to science. but should you venture
>>> into that area of non insignificance, you will find that free-will
>>> (indeterminacy) is at odds with predestination (determinacy).
>
>>> how can you reconcile free-will with the existence of this country?
>>> did you forget so soon that it was the slogan of 'manifest destiny'
>>> that the white people used to horde and conquest their way from east
>>> to west trampling on all forms of life? on one hand, you people would
>>> like to say there is free will, on the other hand, you people say god
>>> had destined the white man to maim, rape, torture, and kill. when it
>>> comes to your daily commercials on god, you tout free-will; when it
>>> comes to the atrocities, grief and crimes against humanity, you excuse
>>> it with god wills so. how self-serving!
>
>>> you have the audacity to be the spokesperson for god? have you ever
>>> seen your god? have you ever heard from your god? even the catholic
>>> church cannot deny that the bible, from start to finish, was written
>>> by man. yet, here you are, quoting what mere mortals have written eons
>>> ago as 'the source' and 'the authority'! you have robbed yourself of
>>> the very same 'free-will' you so claim to exist; instead of your
>>> independent mind and thinking, you rather resign your intelligence and
>>> insult others by pointing to some decadent, dead text.
>
>>> how do you know what your god wants? one day he wants to wipe out life
>>> with water. one day he supposedly manifest in the flesh and promises
>>> to return to wipe out the earth with fire. today, now, he wants us to
>>> love him? do you get daily briefs from this god? what does he want
>>> tomorrow?
>
>>> if he wants us to be real and not puppets, then the way we are is
>>> perfect for this want of his. otherwise, to become a victim of your
>>> cult of mentality, we would have to defy free-will and lock heels and
>>> heads like penguins moving in unison across the uncertain glaciers not
>>> know why we walk but walking yet against the calm before the storm.
>
>>> i ask very simple questions because i know complicated ones cannot be
>>> answered. simple questions and simple answers are better understood.
>>> can you tell me, what is it your god knows or can do that mankind
>>> cannot know and cannot do now or ever? what distinguishes god from
>>> man?
>
>
>>>> On Aug 1, 9:41 am, StickRice
yahoo.com> wrote:>
>>>>>> 4. an omnipotent, omniscient biblical god
>
>>>>>> can god really 'force' an outcome? why would he have to 'force'
>>>>>> something? is he not god? is he not omnipotent? would it not be like
>>>>>> clicking some finger? if god is at force, then the bible thumpers
>>>>>> usually credit the devil at work. so, god and the devil both at work
>>>>>> and can manipulate humans, so does this mean there are really two
>>>>>> equal lords of heaven and earth?
>
>>>>> I don't know. (The only "F" I ever got was in Philosophy.)
>
>>>>> If humans are endowed with a will independent of the gods; and when
>>>>> humans exercise that independence in a manner contrary to the liking
>>>>> of the gods; the gods have the option of allowing the action to
>>>>> proceed or influencing it to change course. That "influence" is
>>>>> external to humanity's free will, thus, relative to humanity's free
>>>>> will, the gods are FORCING or imposing their will.
>
>>>>> What I've always wondered, too, is whether or not Lucifer had free
>>>>> will to act. He, too, was a subject under the all-powerful, all-
>>>>> knowing god. Likewise, did Judas choose willingly when he betrayed
>>>>> Christ?
>
>>>>> I guess what Tsuj is trying to point out is that if fates are
>>>>> predetermined, then there is no free will.
>
>>>>> But, I like to think that we humans have free will and that Fate is
>>>>> nothing but the whispers in our ears and the suggestions in our
>>>>> hearts.
>
>>>>> And that, in the end, if LisNom and other Hmong Christians are correct
>>>>> and I'm standing before the one true God who expresses disapproval
>>>>> with the way I'd lived my existence, I will respond in defense, "What
>>>>> the hell did you expect? I'm exactly they way you made me!"
>
>>>>> ~Frank Lis
>
>>>> Dear friend in Christ
>
>>>> The Bible says that God Knows everything the present past and future.
>>>> Then why did he let man do what He did not want.
>
>>>> God gave us free-will to serve Him with all our hearts. He wanted us
>>>> to serve Him because we want to, not because we are forced to - like a
>>>> robot.
>>>> God created man to worship him and fellowship with. He did not create
>>>> man like a robot or puppit. It would mean nothing if that were the
>>>> case. Sadly, man chose to defy God and created the mess of a world we
>>>> now have. Even that didn't stop GOD from loving us enough to give us
>>>> another out- Jesus dying for us. He (GOD) has given man every
>>>> opportunity and change to come back to him. He loves us that much in
>>>> spite of how much we hurt him.
>
>>>> Free Will is the ability our minds and souls have to make our own
>>>> decisions -- without being threatened into choosing any particular
>>>> way. We are presented with the facts and consequences, and then are
>>>> left to make our own decision. God do not force us but present the
>>>> facts to us. Like Lis Nom did id not force you to agree with him but
>>>> to present the facts of God for you to know so you can make your own
>>>> decision.
>
>>>> Why would God give us Free Will, if it meant we could turn away from
>>>> Him?
>>>> God knew us and how we'd choose to live our lives before we were ever
>>>> born to this Earth. In spite of this fact, however, He chose to give
>>>> us Free Will because He loves us so much. He didn't want us to feel
>>>> like we had no control over our lives. He wants us to be real people,
>>>> not puppets. It is often said of humans that if a person is followed
>>>> because he threatens people into following him, he is followed because
>>>> of fear and not love. God wants us to love Him, not be afraid of Him.- Hide quoted text -
>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>
>> Ca kuv muab has kuam meej le nuav. Vaajtswv yeej hlub neeg nplajteb
>> kawg le tabsis Vaajtswv yeej teev ib lub caij yuav rau txim rua tug
>> ntxwg nyoog (Satan). Yog le Vaajtswv yeej has meej tas yog tug twg
>> nrug ntxwg nyoog mas muaj ib nub yuav raug teem txim. Yog le Vaajtswv
>> txhaj present qhov facts rua txhua tug kuam pum hab paub tas yog tsi
>> ntseeg Vaajtswv mas yuav raug txim. Tabsis Vaajtswv tsi yuam kuam
>> tuab neeg ca le ntseeg Vaajtswv. Vaajtswv muab free will or free
>> choice rua tuab neeg kuam tuab neeg muaj cai xaiv tuab neeg txuj kev
>> taug. Qhov tuab neeg raug kev puam tsuaj tsi yog vim Vaajtswv phem
>> tabsis vim yog tuab neeg yeej xaiv txuj kev ntawm.
>
>> Koj has txug Vaajtswv tso dlej nyaab. Qhov Vaajtswv tso dlej nyaab
>> vim Vaajtswv tub yeej qha ua ntej lawm has tas tuab neeg yuav tau ua
>> zoo, yuav tau txawj hwm Vaajtswv. Yog tsi ua zoo mas Vaajtswv yuav
>> muab ua kuam puam tsuaj moog. Txawm le ntawm los tuab neeg yeej tsi
>> kaam ua zoo. Thaum Vaajtswv yuav tso dlej lug los Vaajtswv yeej tseem
>> hlub puab mas Vaajtswv txhaj kuam Noah moog qha puab ua nkoj, puab
>> txhaj dlim. le ntawm los puab yeej tsi noog Vaajtswv cov lug ib
>> yaam. Txhua zag Vaajtswv yuav tso kev puam tsuaj rua tuab neeg mas
>> nwg yeej ceeb toom ua ntej lawm.
>
>> Ib yaam le lub nroog Nenave kws ua phem ua nqas heev mas Vaajtswv
>> tseeb toom tas yog tsi tseg mas Vaajtswv yuav muab tshuav kuam puam
>> tsuaj moog. Le ntawm los puab kuj tsi ntseeg. Vaajtswv txhaj kuam
>> Yaunas moog has kag tas 40 nub tom ntej xwb mas Vaajtswv yuav muab mej
>> lub nroog hlawv kuam puam tsuaj vim mej lub nroog ua phem heev. Thaum
>> Vaajntxwv nov Yaunas cov lug, nwg nqeg saum rooj huabtais lug naav
>> naab tsaaj hab pw huv qhov tshauv. Nwg kuam tej pej xeem txhua tug ua
>> ib yaam nkaus. Vaajtswv tub hloov sab hab tsi ua kuam lub nroog puam
>> tsuaj.
>
>> Nwg nuav Vaajtswv muab free will rua peb tabsis Vaajtswv yeej qha meej
>> tas koj yuav xaiv le caag los tau tabsis thaum kawg mas tug tsi ntseeg
>> kuv yeej yuav raug txav txim, yuav raug kev puam tsuaj. Tsi tau qha
>> tas Vaajtswv muab free will cais koj xaiv txuj twg los yeej zoo tuab
>> si.- Hide quoted text -
>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I am not exposure to science, I tell the true about what God want the
> universe to react to his will.
