freedom,
here's the first sentence of neeg's post, "Hmong Charter Schools are
exploiting vulnerable Hmong parents who want their kids to learn about
Hmong culture."
i think we are losing focus on his/her claim. even the poster has no
data/statistics on how well the children have learned about hmong
culture (of course, the poster listed plenty of data in other areas of
academic education). that's why i cautioned the poster to be as
prepared as possible and investigate the claims to the fullest extent.
according to the poster, there is exploitation, and this exploitation
is related to the student's academic education on hmong culture, which
is not being satisfied.
to be honest, i think the poster does not really have a focus or
clarity into what problem he/she is trying to address. i have to stop
and think, if the salaries of the principals/administrators are
lowered, say to $60,000/year, would there be accusations of
exploitation? meaning, i think the poster is saying, a highly paid
decision maker should produce expectedly high performance; but would
he/she agree that a lowly compensated decision maker not be held to
the same standard or level of performance? if so, i think that is
absurd and very unfair.
1. we know that public schools are not performing as desired across
all of america.
2. we know that charter schools were suppose to reform academic
education (in particular as a response to public schools).
3. we know that charter schools are now reported to have the same, if
not worse, problems than public school.
4. we know these issues/problems of public versus charter schools are
widespread, not remotely a unique 'hmong' problem or 'hmong education'
problem
i can only infer that the 'exploitation' claim is just an accusation
at this point. to prove exploitation, as i mentioned, would include
showing how resources (not just financial resources) were appropriated
towards efforts alien to the mission/vision of the charter schools.
this problem is 'hmong' only insofar as it covers the subset of
charter schools that are created/administered primarily by hmong.
On Mar 27, 9:42 am, listhoj1...@
yahoo.com wrote:
> On Mar 27, 7:04 am, Neegnts...@
gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>> On Mar 27, 1:25 am, madcow
hotmail.com> wrote:>
>>>>> Hmong Charter Schools are exploiting vulnerable Hmong parents who want
>>>>> their kids to learn about Hmong culture. Take for instant majority of
>
>>>> Here's my question: Can you show that Hmong kids who attend public
>>>> school score higher than Hmong kids who attend Hmong Charter schools?
>>>> If that's true, then Hmong Charter School has failed. If not, then
>>>> perhaps it's the kids? The parents?
>
>>> Since I am on a roll tonight, on this topic, let me quickly train to
>>> explain to YOU who are Hmong and are very proud of everything abotu
>>> Hmong:
>
>>> Hmong kids, ON AVERAGE, will do comparatively poorly, with respect to,
>>> say, White kids.
>
>>> We are not talking about the few exceptions. You will see a few of
>>> those, each year, as we've seen them over the years, since shortly
>>> after we arrived here in America in the mid to late 1970's.
>
>>> The problem with Hmong parents is that they use those FEW EXCEPTIONALS
>>> Hmong valedictorians and 4.0-ners to prove some rule, the rule: that
>>> everyone can learn and learn like that. That's just not the case.
>>> Those few Hmong boys and girls who earn straight A's or close to them,
>>> in normal public schols, they will also likely earn them in expensive
>>> private schools, even though in private schools they would be
>>> surrounded by a whole lot more equally bright young people.... with
>>> the effect that, if those few public school Hmong kids were standing
>>> next to expensive private students, the Hmong kids achievements won't
>>> be as glaring or "exception."
>
>>> In my line of work --- tutoring private highg school students, for
>>> example --- I talk to kids who are accepted to Harvard, Yale,
>>> Stanford, MIT, etc. as commonly as I talk to kids who go to, or choose
>>> to go to, the less well known, but small and intimate, private liberal
>>> arts college. In fact, just before break, I had a chance to talk to a
>>> young woman (who came into my tutoring room with her friend, whom I've
>>> been working with on statistics) who was accepted to both MIT and
>>> CalTech, extremely exceptional. Her younger brother, a 10th grader,
>>> has been doing multi-variable calculus at the University of Minnesota
>>> for the past a couple years, since the school the high school the
>>> siblings attend has only a first and a second year of calculus....
>
>>> Anyway, the point is, Hmong parents have too many children and they
>>> ALSO LACK, on avearge, the educational background needed to help these
>>> kids. But they keep pointing to the one or two, our of a family of,
>>> say, 6 to 9 children, who do well as the rule. That's not the rule;
>>> the one or two who do well, from the large family, are the exceptions.
>
>>> If you want you kids to do well, you need to have LESS of them and you
>>> also need to devote more quality time and resource on them.
>
>>> It is truly TRUE that by the time the kids are tested for preschool,
>>> Hmong kids, on average, are already a year or two behind the average
>>> White kids from middle to upper middle class backgrounds. Some will
>>> catch, but most won't.
>
>>> When we look at AGGREGATE statistics --- say of, "Hmong students" ---
>>> we don't talk about individuals; we talk about an AVERAGE reading or
>>> an average writing or an average math score. It does not make sense
>>> for you, as a presenter, for exmaple, to scroll through a list of
>>> students and pick the 3 Hmong kds who score in the 90 percentiles ---
>>> whether form a charter or a traditonal public school --- and say,
>>> "See, they can do it, why not everyone, too?"
>
>>> It doesnt' work that way.
>
>>> Having been a classroom teacher, I will never blame OTHER teachers.
>>> Teachers, for the most part, are well educated, caring, and
>>> knowledegable in the subject matter they teach. It's just that there
>>> are too many OTHER PROBLEMS outside of academics, so many potentially
>>> good teachers just never have the chance to practice their crafts of
>>> delivering an academic subject.
>
>>> 1. the average class are too large
>>> 2. the kids are, on average, too needy in too many areas
>>> 3. Hmong parents are not involved neough; and even when they are
>>> physically there, in the school, they LACK the necessary skills to ask
>>> teachers and administrators tough and relevant questions about
>>> specific subject matters.
>>> 4. Hmong parents have, again, too many children and they can not,
>>> BOTH TIMEWISE AND RESOURCE, support them adequately, so those kids
>>> start from a very disadvantageous set of circumstances.
>>> 5. many small/charter schools do NOT have the properly-trained
>>> administrators/principals: stemming from that LACKING in
>>> administrative preparedness, could be a set of hiring and decision
>>> making events that keep the local/charter school MIRED in perpetual
>>> mediocrity.
>
>>> I, for example, think I know the subjects matter I deal with and do a
>>> good job, with the one or two students I see, each hour. But I don't
>>> know any thing about administrative things; have no interest in it.
>>> My interest is pure academics and teaching. I would make a very poor
>>> administrator. I know that.
>
>>> But MONEY makes a lot of people --- even those who have little or no
>>> teaching experience --- think they could teach or run schools, for
>>> hundreds of children, SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY ARE A PART of the people/
>>> ethnic group they want charter schools to be founded for.....
>
>>> That makes bad education.
>
>>> Setting up a charter school, as half a dozen enterprenurieal Hmong
>>> have found out, is actually not thta difficult. Staffing it with very
>>> competent teachers is very difficult.
>
>>> The rate of new-teacher retention in public schools is pretty bad; the
>>> rate of new-teacher retention in most inner city charter school is
>>> horrendous.
>
>>> For, unlike in the public school, among public school teachers, there
>>> is very minimal quality professional development opportunties in
>>> small, charter schools. You are NOT an integrated part of the public
>>> school systems, so they don't feel like they need to include you in
>>> their broad, on-going professional training. You are on yoru own, at
>>> your little local/neighborhood charter school.
>
>>> Whoever think, hastily, they are going to be able to teach Hmong kids
>>> better, more efficiently, with profits to be made, they are fooling
>>> themselves. I am sure those few who get such projects start can set
>>> up committees to pay themselves good incomes with the lumpsums given
>>> out to them by the various governmental agencies; but I doubt very
>>> much these Hmong academies will really out-do the public schools..
>
>>> In fact, I would be rather surprised and shocked, if they actually
>>> produce statistics showing any particular charter school (in the Twin
>>> Cities) whose Hmong kids out-score those from the larger public
>>> schools. At least two or three of them, with 40 percent or more being
>>> Hmong kids, have been in existence for around 10 years, now, so that's
>>> enough of a time to TRULY GAUGE whether or not charter ideals have
>>> worked.
>
>>> Again, whether not not the founders of such charter schools will be
>>> able to be honest enough with themselves, with statistics, I can not
>>> say. I am not really that interested in what they say, actually.
>
>>> But Hmong PARENTS who's kids enable these founders to pay themselves
>>> in the $70,000 to $100,000 range need to be aware of all these
>>> things.
>
>>> If they are not aware of these things, and I do not believe they are,
>>> then what we are doing here is, as some founders and their defenders
>>> would say, spreading lies and rumors --- twisting statistics out of
>>> shape, to say whatever we want (which they also do, do justify their
>>> schools and programs and pays) --- when they have, when they run,
>>> "perfectly good schools..."
>
>>> A little pet peeve is, the public money they get comes out of OUR
>>> pockets, too, even though we are not involved in those small, isolated
>>> schools. We just don't have the more precious things involved in
>>> them: our kids.
>
>>> Ultimately, then, I will suggest that those who have most to lose ---
>>> like parents --- ought to speak up and speak out more. They NEED to
>>> seek help, from outside, if they must. You can't just nod when you
>>> teachers give you your kids scores, when you don't know how they are
>>> tested or if the tests are even validly done. How they are done...
>>> Why they are done.... etc.
>
>> Her,
>
>> I am glad someone with credible sense and intelligent can see through
>> that these Hmong charter schools are a fraud. Stealing the dreams and
>> education out of our Hmong children and vulnerable parents, with
>> unsuspecting tax payers' money.
>
>> I thought people were tired of getting ripped off by general vang pao
>> and his gangsters, now the new breed of hmong gangsters are even more
>> dangerous and cunning with their education and knowledge of the
>> systems.
>
>> These "new educated hmong gangsters" are worst than the hmong
>> gangsters on the street. The hmong street gangsters might ruin a few
>> lives including theirs, but the "educated hmong gangsters" e.g. hmong
>> charter school adminstrator, Hmong predatory lenders, corrupted
>> nonprofit executives and board members, etc. these new educated hmong
>> gangsters can ruin hundreds of lives every year and ten of thousands
>> over a few year span, while their wallets keep on getting fatter at
>> the expense of the uneducated and vulnerable Hmong.- Hide quoted text -
>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> We are living in the US and all this Hmong Charter School are under
> the law of this country. To those who ...
>
> read more В»
