>
> No Jules, I question man's judgement.
>
Right here from the get go, we have a major disagreement. You believe that
men wrote the Bible, I believe that it is one hundred percent God inspired.
You believe that it is the work of men, I believe the work of God. You
believe that it is fallible, I believe that it is infallible.
>
> A group of men who claim to speak
> the "word" of God, only through their culture and experience. Abraham,
> Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Yeshuah are the ancestors/heroes of a small group
> of the human family.
>
Actually, it didn't start with Abraham, but with Adam, the first human
being to ever walk this earth. God has chosen to painstakingly detail the
life of at least one of his sons, and of every one of his descendents,
encompassing at least 11,000 years of human history, going all the way to
the birth of Jesus Christ, whom you call by his Hebrew name Yeshuah.
>
Of this:
>> I don't. I am but dust of the earth, and God is God. You feel that God
>> can is >>capable of committing murder, I on the other hand know that God
>> who is the giver >> of ALL life is free to take life away from anyone,
>> anyhow, any time he wishes, and
>> there is nothing that anyone can do about it. God is above sin. Sin is
>> defined as disobedience against God. God cannot sin against himself, he
>> is
>> God. God cannot do anything wrong because he is God, and is above
>> judgment.
>
You wrote:
> Again, you miss an important point. This particular "image of god" to
> which you and I have been exposed is the creation of a group of human
> beings.
>
You and I are in disagreement on this. You feel that the Bible is the work
of men, I feel that it is the work of God
>
> And it is no wonder that this "god" is presented with very
> human characteristics:
>
Again you miss the mark. God is not presented with human characteristics.
God is not created in the image of man, man is the one who is created in the
image of God. It is therefore consistent that men exhibit godly
characteristics.
>
> jealous, unfair, inconsistent, and vengeful like
> the worst among us, he would order the sun to stand still, if need be,
> so a group of men can slaughter the babies in the womb of another
> nation? What kind of Bon-Dieu is that? The kind invented in the wicked
> imagination of deranged men.
>
Before sin came into this world, man was a near prefect being. I say "near"
simply because he was born with a certain curiosity to discover and to know
all things, including the things (and there was only one: the fruit from the
tree of the knowledge of good and evil). From God's stand point, it was by
design, because we know that God had chosen to save men from their sins,
long before he was ever created.
John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were
made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Here we see that the Lord Jesus Christ created the world in which he chose
to come as an infant to save mankind from sin, and separation from God.
>
> In the Christian version of the the judeo-christian story "god" is said
> to have impregnated a virgin to give birth to himself (the son).
>
Where does it say that? I'd like you to show it to me.
>
>Then, to appease himself (the father), he gets crucified on a
>cross....while
> dying there, he cries out to himself "Father, father why have you
> forsaken me?".
>
The story of his life was foretold by the prophet Isaiah long before the
birth of our Lord. God wrote exactly what was to happen to his son, and how
he would pay for our sins.
Isaiah 53:1-12 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the
LORD revealed? For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a
root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall
see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and
rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as
it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem
him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our
transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our
peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep
have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath
laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and
as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. He was
taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation?
for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of
my people was he stricken. And he made his grave with the wicked, and with
the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any
deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him
to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see
his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall
prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be
satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he
shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the
great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured
out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he
bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
>
>Now, if you do not know the history of how many times a
> set of european men sat down and voted on the subject in order to
> arrive at this text you call the "word of God".
>
Would your objections have been more subdue if those men were Africans?
>
> Obviously you have to declare that the whole thing is mysterious because
> God is >beyond our human comprehension and somehow, with faith, we must
> assume it does
> make sense.
>
Before it makes sense to you there are some pre-requisites:
Psalms 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good
understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth
for ever.
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of
God.
To understand this you have to start backward.
1) Fear of the Lord. It comes simply from looking at this infinitely
complex, yet orderly physical world in which we live, and realize how
infinitely insignificant the wisest ones compares, when confronted with the
building blocks of nature. It tells us that God exists.
Psalms 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth
his handywork.
2) The word of God (the Bible) is a must, and God has given it freely.
3) The word of God, when accepted verbatim, produces faith.
4) When we accept Jesus Christ by faith, we are saved, and begin our eternal
walk with God on this earth and on to eternity.
> But, the historical record does exist. We not only know
> when, where and how these very sinful men met and VOTED Jesus 100%% God,
> then 100%% men and then 100%% both (its all new math). And so, I
> concluded in my book "Viv Bondye ! Aba relijyon!" that all these
> fingerprints that we do see in the bible are indeed those of men.
>
You, like many others before you will see the error of your ways. Hopefully
for you it will happen before you breathe your last breath. But if it
happens after physical death you're doomed.
>
> Check out the council of Nicea & the Aryan controversy in connection to
> the transformation of a poor Palestinian son of carpenter Joseph into a
> "god, son of god but god himself" who is said to havecreated a
> religion, he himself never even knew while alive.
>
You're free to think, and to teach that Jesus Christ was a mere man. You are
deceiving many who believe in the things you say or write. By doing so you
are doing the work of the devil, and you will meet him someday, and you will
suffer with him.
>
> Check out the Council of Trent for the transformation of the letters of
> Paul
>
I don't need to, I have the holy spirit of God living within me to teach me
his word, and all that I need to know to be of service to those who like me
were lost, hungry, and thirsty for truth, and life.
>
> The apostle Paul was a Roman informant who infiltrated the jewish sect
> and
>then claim to be its suddenly transformed leader - into "word of god".
>
You're free to believe in fables, and tales, and all sorts of conspiracy
theories that are floating around. I'm sure they satisfy your predisposed
curiosity, but I have no interest in that kind of garbage.
>
>Sort of like Toto Constant writing the Gospels of Lavalas. Sorry, i
>couldn't resist
> the comparison :o)
>
Who needs Toto Constant, when we have Aristide :-) ???
>
> See also the works of Constantin, another weird story of persecutor
> turned chamion of the sect.
>
The story of the conversion of Constantin, and of everyone else who claims
to be a Christian is only God's business.
John 10:14-16 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of
mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my
life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them
also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one
fold, and one shepherd.
>
> Then, it becomes clear why the god of the bible is so weird and
> inconsistent. Why his so-called "word" could be used to justify the
> worst crimes ever, including racial slavery.
>
I'm surprised that you did not accuse God of creating slavery. Don't think
for one minute that you would NOT do any of those things if you were in
those men's shoes.
>
> Indeed Jules, it makes no sense that the Creator made men, then men
> made religion and for religion now to have the ambition of introducing
> men to his maker.
>
God did not create religion. He puts man on this earth, he wrote his word
describing the history of the world from day one, then he sent his son to
die for those who believe in him. The end of the story.
>
> I will continue to say Praise the Creator ! Down with Religion !
>
Acts 4:10-12 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel,
that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God
raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become
the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there
is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Without Jesus you got nothing.
Jules
