Re: Stumped about general relativity "contradiction"--a paradox
  Home FAQ Contact Sign in
sci.physics.foundations only
 
Advanced search
POPULAR GROUPS

more...

 Up
Re: Stumped about general relativity "contradiction"--a paradox         

Group: sci.physics.foundations · Group Profile
Author: Oh No
Date: May 2, 2008 06:44

Thus spake heiwos gmail.com>
>I've come across a blog post that attempts to show that general
>relativity (GR) contradicts itself about black holes. No, I didn't
>write it so please don't lambaste me. I just want to know what's wrong
>with it. I hope this isn't yet another group where not even an
>imagined problem with mainstream physics can be discussed. I hope the
>charter isn't a cruel trick.
>
>There's been some discussion about the blog (note I didn't start it)
>in another forum. You can find both the blog (called "On Cosmology")
>and the discussion thread (at scienceforums) by googling for "No Black
>Holes (General Relativity Contradicts Itself)" (put within double
>quotes). I'd put the links here but Google Groups doesn't allow that
>for some reason.
>
>The best problem about the blog they've come up with in the thread is
>that it lacks math. I don't see that as a major problem. The way I see
>it, the blog post is a paradox, just like the twin paradox or Bell's
>spaceship paradox, both of which are described in words, without math.
>I'm confident there's a simple solution, also describable in words,
>that shows a problem with the blog. The blog uses only a few widely
>published predictions of GR.
>
>In brief, the blog's argument is that GR demands that a freely falling
>frame that is falling through the horizon of a black hole is not
>equivalent to a freely falling frame that is wholly above a horizon.
>This would contradict GR's own equivalence principle, hence GR would
>contradict itself. The blog attempts to show that under certain
>conditions, in the frame falling through the horizon, GR allows you to
>determine that two bodies are moving relative to each other, knowing
>no more info about one of the bodies than its location in the frame.
>Such cannot be determined in a frame that is wholly above a horizon.
>But read the blog for whole story.
>
>It's making me crazy trying to figure out the solution. I have a
>decent layman's knowledge of GR (for example I well understand the
>solutions to the other paradoxes mentioned), but the blog's paradox
>seems airtight to me. It can't be!
>
I take it that this link gives the paradox.

http://finbot.wordpress.com/

It seems to me that the paradox makes a right pig's ear of what general
relativity actually says. You cannot have it both ways. If tidal forces
are measurable, then you are not in a locally inertial frame.
The only way you can have a description of the ball straddling the
horizon is to use infalling (or outfalling) coordinates. In which case
you cannot describe the outgoing particle without stipulating that it in
motion. IOW, there is no description in which the conditions of law
actually hold.

Regards

--
Charles Francis
moderator sci.physics.foundations.
charles (dot) e (dot) h (dot) francis (at) googlemail.com (remove spaces and
braces)

http://www.teleconnection.info/rqg/MainIndex
no comments
diggit! del.icio.us! reddit!

RELATED THREADS
SubjectArticles qty Group
Re: Summary of pro-Relativity and anti-Relativity debatesci.physics.relativity ·