Hum from phone wires running next to mains?
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Re: Hum from phone wires running next to mains?         


Author: Tom Horne
Date: Mar 4, 2008 18:58

Foxtrot wrote:
> On Tue 04 Mar 2008 21:22:30, ipal.net> wrote:
>
>> In alt.engineering.electrical gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>> | On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 19:13:07 -0000, "Graham." privacy.com>
>> | wrote:
>>
>> |>It is quite difficult to induce hum into telephone wiring.
>> |>Use twisted pair cabling rather than the flat ready-made
>> |>extension cables.
>> |
>> | Exactly!
>> | The phone company has millions of miles of cable running right
>> | below power lines and hundreds literally touching each other in
>> | the jacket of the cable. That little twist they put in the pairs
>> | is excellent in isolating them from crosstalk.
>>
>> That twist is a great little means to ensure induced signals,
>> whatever they may be, are induced in equal amount on both wires, so
>> they do not contribute to the actual intended signal that is a ...
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Re: Hum from phone wires running next to mains?         


Author: jasee
Date: Mar 5, 2008 00:40

Foxtrot wrote:
> On Tue 04 Mar 2008 19:13:07, Graham. privacy.com> wrote:
>> "Foxtrot" wrote in message
>> news:Xns9A57AA15ACE8ED712E3@127.0.0.1...
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Re: Hum from phone wires running next to mains?         


Author: George
Date: Mar 5, 2008 03:40

On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 21:22:30 +0000, phil-news-nospam wrote:
> In alt.engineering.electrical gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
> | On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 19:13:07 -0000, "Graham." privacy.com> wrote:
>
> |>It is quite difficult to induce hum into telephone wiring. Use twisted...
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Re: Hum from phone wires running next to mains?         


Author: Brian Cryer
Date: Mar 5, 2008 05:41

"Foxtrot" wrote in message
news:Xns9A57AA15ACE8ED712E3@127.0.0.1...
>I am in the UK and want to make several phone extensions.
>
> QUESTION: I would like to know I this will increase the level of hum.
>
> ISTR UK phones have a transformer and some other components to
> neutralise hum but would that be good enough to prevent hum from a messy
> setup like mine? Some details are below.
>
> -------------------------
>
> In my situation the phone extension wires and the mains wires will run
> close to one other.
>
> There will be about four or five additional extension phone sockets.

Can't comment on the hum ... but it looks like others have.
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Re: Hum from phone wires running next to mains?         


Author: phil-news-nospam
Date: Mar 5, 2008 06:19

In alt.engineering.electrical George wrote:
| On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 21:22:30 +0000, phil-news-nospam wrote:
|
|> In alt.engineering.electrical gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
|> | On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 19:13:07 -0000, "Graham." privacy.com> wrote:
|>
|> |>It is quite difficult to induce hum into telephone wiring. Use twisted
|> |>pair cabling rather than the flat ready-made extension cables.
|> |
|> | Exactly!
|> | The phone company has millions of miles of cable running right below
|> | power lines and hundreds literally touching each other in the jacket of
|> | the cable. That little twist they put in the pairs is excellent in
|> | isolating them from crosstalk.
|>
|> That twist is a great little means to ensure induced signals, whatever
|> they may be, are induced in equal amount on both wires, so they do not
|> contribute to the actual intended signal that is a differential between
|> those two wires.
|> ...
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Re: Hum from phone wires running next to mains?         


Author: phil-news-nospam
Date: Mar 5, 2008 06:42

In alt.engineering.electrical Brian Cryer 127.0.0.1.ntlworld.com> wrote:
| "Foxtrot" wrote in message
| news:Xns9A57AA15ACE8ED712E3@127.0.0.1...
|>I am in the UK and want to make several phone extensions.
|>
|> QUESTION: I would like to know I this will increase the level of hum.
|>
|> ISTR UK phones have a transformer and some other components to
|> neutralise hum but would that be good enough to prevent hum from a messy
|> setup like mine? Some details are below.
|>
|> -------------------------
|>
|> In my situation the phone extension wires and the mains wires will run
|> close to one other.
|>
|> There will be about four or five additional extension phone sockets.
|
| Can't comment on the hum ... but it looks like others have.
| ...
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Re: Hum from phone wires running next to mains?         


Author: charles
Date: Mar 5, 2008 07:25

In article news3.newsguy.com>,
ipal.net> wrote:
> I used to see phones rated in terms of their "ringer equivalence" here in
> the USA. These numbers were, for some phones, as low as 0.2. I do not
> recall ever seeing one about 0.9. That would suggest to me that you could
> readily have more than 4 phones on such a phone circuit. I never had any
> reason to actually do a scientific test of this.

There is obviously a significant difference in the phone systems in the two
countries. Our phones have the bells in parallel and if thee are too many
the wrong impedance is presented to the exchange, and no ringing voltage
will get sent. I have never seen a UK approved phone with a REN less than
1, but there were plenty of 2s & 3s about at one time.

You can buy a REN booster ( a mains powered device) which allows many more
phones.

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11
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Re: Hum from phone wires running next to mains?         


Author: kony
Date: Mar 5, 2008 07:56

On 5 Mar 2008 14:42:21 GMT, phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:
>| One contribution I would make is that you are aware that your phone service
>| will support 4 REN and that each phone is normally 1 REN, meaning that you
>| can have a maximum of 4 phones. My parents had more of this and whilst from
>| their perspective it seemed to work (they could call out), it stopped people
>| from calling in because their phones stopped ringing.
>
>I used to see phones rated in terms of their "ringer equivalence" here in
>the USA. These numbers were, for some phones, as low as 0.2. I do not
>recall ever seeing one about 0.9. That would suggest to me that you could
>readily have more than 4 phones on such a phone circuit. I never had any
>reason to actually do a scientific test of this.
>

It depends on how old the phones, or these days with modern
electrically powered phones, cordless/etc, the REN, number
may be very low per phone. IMO, no good reason not to get a
cordless phone these days as some are dirt cheap, except
it's nice to have at least one non-electric in case the
power goes out.
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Re: Hum from phone wires running next to mains?         


Author: Ryan Weihl
Date: Mar 5, 2008 10:06

Brian Cryer wrote:
> "Foxtrot" wrote in message
> news:Xns9A57AA15ACE8ED712E3@127.0.0.1...
>> I am in the UK and want to make several phone extensions.
>>
>> QUESTION: I would like to know I this...
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Re: Hum from phone wires running next to mains?         


Author: Ivor Jones
Date: Mar 5, 2008 10:22

ipal.net> wrote in message
news:fqma4m1ier@news3.newsguy.com

[snip]

: : I've seen cables, including CAT5, with both twisting
: : _and_ shielding around the whole cable assembly. I
: : don't know how much the effectiveness works together.
: : I have not had a case where I would consider using it.

That's STP (shielded twisted pair) and is not really worth it for most
applications. There is a military spec. for it somewhere, I believe.

It's also a different impedance to UTP so may not work correctly with all
equipment.

Ivor
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