> Bob Quintal wrote:

>> Richard The Dreaded Libertarian example.net> wrote in
>>news:pan.2007.07.05.22.54.39.208429@example.net:

>

>>> On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:36:05 +0000, Bob Quintal wrote:

>>>> Richard The Dreaded Libertarian example.net> wrote in

>>> What is this "access to the green" stuff you keep chanting? I

>

>> I stated that taxation is not theft. It's like a membership fee
>> to a golf club. If you want to putt on the green you gotta pay
>> the fee. If you don't want to putt on the greens, or drink in
>> the clubhousew, get off the golf course...

>
> The problem with your view, is it requires that private ownership
> be null and void. I cannot own my part of the green, the government
> does, and just lets me use it for a fee.
>
> That is nothing but a socialist/communist form of government.
>

>>> don't want anybody else's money any more than I want to hand
>>> over my money to them, unless there's some exchange of value
>>> where we both come out ahead.

>

>>> But when it comes to taxes, I'm denied the right to make that
>>> decision.

>

>> BullS#!T.

>

>> You have a vote.You have the right to get involved in politics.
>> Get off your lazy butt and work at steering political decisions.

>
> Again, as Rich said, I am denied the right to make that decision for
> myself. I, as you said, have to lobby (beg) the rest of the people,
> or the government to let me make the decision. That is not free will,
> that is socialism.
>

>>> And you have also completely skirted the original point, that
>>> taxation is theft; a sure symptom of apologism.

>

>> Your original point is wrong, for the same reason that you
>> asking a customer to pay you for goods or services you provide
>> is not theft.

>
> No it isn't the same. I choose whether I wish to frequent the store.
> I choose which goods I would like to own, and I trade some token of
> my fruits of labor for that good. With taxation, the government
> chooses what they I will buy, on my behalf, with my money, not me.
>

>> The fact that you are a spoiled little brat and cannot stop
>> whining long enough to understand that is nobody's fault except
>> yours.
>> .
>> You enjoy the protection of the police and fire departments,
>> benefits of a transportation infrastructure, etc. etc. You
>> cannot just say I don't need no stinkin roads.

>
> What if I don't want their protection? I have no choice, they
> are going to "help" me regardless of how I feel about it.
>

>>> You say you can opt out of the club if you don't want a piece
>>> of the green - I say, "try it, to find out if they won't use
>>> force against you" and your response is "you don't want to
>>> pay"...

>

>>> Of COURSE I don't want to pay other people's bills! They
>>> should be responsible for their own damn bills!

>

>> Taxes are not to pay other people's bills. they're to pay for
>> things that everyboddy uses, like roads, and schools, and
>> hospitals.and fire departments. You may argue that the health of
>> the street sweeper is of no concern to you, but if she spreads
>> tuberculosis to your neighborhood, it damn well is.

>
> May I have your permission to argue that I don't give a rat's ass
> if that lazy hunk of garbage and his spawn starve to death? Why
> should I have to pay for him and the fruit of his lazy loins to
> eat, have shelter, medical coverage, ...?