On Jul 6, 5:10 am, Chuck Harris
erols.com> wrote:> Bob Quintal wrote:
>> Richard The Dreaded Libertarian
example.net> wrote in
>>news:pan.2007.07.05.22.54.39.208429@example.net:>
>>> On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:36:05 +0000, Bob Quintal wrote:
>>>> Richard The Dreaded Libertarian
example.net> wrote in>>> What is this "access to the green" stuff you keep chanting? I
>
>> I stated that taxation is not theft. It's like a membership fee
>> to a golf club. If you want to putt on the green you gotta pay
>> the fee. If you don't want to putt on the greens, or drink in
>> the clubhousew, get off the golf course...
>
> The problem with your view, is it requires that private ownership
> be null and void. I cannot own my part of the green, the government
> does, and just lets me use it for a fee.
There is no such problem with his view. You can own the golf cart
etc. The "green" in his case is things like the court system which
there is no way you can own.
> That is nothing but a socialist/communist form of government.
You are simply wrong in this.
[....]
>> You have a vote.You have the right to get involved in politics.
>> Get off your lazy butt and work at steering political decisions.
>
> Again, as Rich said, I am denied the right to make that decision for
> myself. I, as you said, have to lobby (beg) the rest of the people,
> or the government to let me make the decision. That is not free will,
> that is socialism.
You are wrong about this. You make the choice to use the system by
living in the country, making contracts and driving cars. You use the
services so you don't have the right to refuse to pay for those
services. Refusal to pay in theft.
>
>>> And you have also completely skirted the original point, that
>>> taxation is theft; a sure symptom of apologism.
>
>> Your original point is wrong, for the same reason that you
>> asking a customer to pay you for goods or services you provide
>> is not theft.
>
> No it isn't the same. I choose whether I wish to frequent the store.
> I choose which goods I would like to own, and I trade some token of
> my fruits of labor for that good. With taxation, the government
> chooses what they I will buy, on my behalf, with my money, not me.
You choose which country to live in and whether to drive a car and
whether to make a contract etc. Everything that causes you to owe a
tax is your choice. When you visit a store you take advantage of the
FDA, the courts, the roads, the police and a bunch of other services.
>
>> The fact that you are a spoiled little brat and cannot stop
>> whining long enough to understand that is nobody's fault except
>> yours.
>> .
>> You enjoy the protection of the police and fire departments,
>> benefits of a transportation infrastructure, etc. etc. You
>> cannot just say I don't need no stinkin roads.
>
> What if I don't want their protection? I have no choice, they
> are going to "help" me regardless of how I feel about it.
You can leave the country. You want to be in the country club but you
don't want to pay the fees.
>> Taxes are not to pay other people's bills. they're to pay for
>> things that everyboddy uses, like roads, and schools, and
>> hospitals.and fire departments. You may argue that the health of
>> the street sweeper is of no concern to you, but if she spreads
>> tuberculosis to your neighborhood, it damn well is.
>
> May I have your permission to argue that I don't give a rat's ass
> if that lazy hunk of garbage and his spawn starve to death? Why
> should I have to pay for him and the fruit of his lazy loins to
> eat, have shelter, medical coverage, ...?
Yes you can argue that, but you will show yourself to be a fool in the
process. Go ahead and follow the logic through. See where you get.
