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Author: Simon S AysdieSimon S Aysdie Date: Jul 8, 2007 09:57
On Jul 6, 11:59 pm, joseph2k yahoo.com> wrote:> Simon S Aysdie wrote:
>> On Jul 5, 6:48 pm, MooseFET rahul.net> wrote:>>> On Jul 5, 3:54 pm, Richard The Dreaded Libertarian example.net>
>>> wrote:>
>>>> What is this "access to the green" stuff you keep chanting?
>
>>> Do you want a contract to be valid and enforced. Do you want police?
>
>> He doesn't want *your* police.
>
>>> You get the courts enforcing contracts
>>> etc.
>
>> You mean he gets *your* police and courts.
>
>> He's saying he does not need a guvmint for these things, and he is
>> correct. Protection and courts would be available on the open market
>> if the guvmint did not claim a coercive monopoly on them by violent ...
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Author: Simon S AysdieSimon S Aysdie Date: Jul 8, 2007 10:04
On Jul 8, 6:24 am, MooseFET rahul.net> wrote:> On Jul 7, 3:14 pm, Richard The Dreaded Libertarian example.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>> On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 13:14:03 -0700, MooseFET wrote:
>>> On Jul 7, 12:54 pm, Richard The Dreaded Libertarian example.net>>>>> On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 18:55:47 -0700, MooseFET wrote:
>>>>> Armed thugs go to the highest bidder. He would not be able to afford
>>>>> the protection the police and the courts now give him. Look at any
>>>>> failed state where the police have been replaced by armed gangs to see
>>>>> what happens.
>
>>>> You're doing nothing but projecting your paranoia on me. I have no need
>>>> of armed thugs, especially your armed thugs who steal my money to pay
>>>> themselves.
> ...
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Author: Simon S AysdieSimon S Aysdie Date: Jul 8, 2007 10:23
On Jul 7, 12:58 pm, MooseFET rahul.net> wrote:> On Jul 7, 12:44 pm, Richard The Dreaded Libertarian example.net>
> wrote:
>> Then you need a court system.
I would agree that courts would form and evolve -- they did. The
point of contention is whether they should be in the purview of The
State. They should not.
> If they provide a service for the money, they are not thieves.
This is like the mobster wink wink "I provide you protection and
security." A master provides food, shelter, and security for his/her
slaves. Your's is a poor argument.
The service must be purchased voluntarily to remove it from the realm
of thievery. Your argument is circular and begs the question. It is
weak.
> You don't have a free market if people take whatever they want by
> force. You are assuming that a free market can exist without a court
> system and a police force to ensure that the market is in fact free.
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Author: Mark ZenierMark Zenier Date: Jul 7, 2007 22:11
>
>You are a statist.
Hey, Little Dog, here's a clue. You're just a Bolshevik with a few
bits flipped. You share the same mechanistic 19th century model
of human nature (with a few inversions in the axioms) that made
the Soviet Union such a success.
It's a pity the Libertarian Paradise of Somalia has fallen to the
Islamic Courts Union, and then to the Ethiopian (and US) backed
Provisional Government. That was the sort of society you get with
"big L Libertarianism". Clans and Militias. No safety except for family.
Utopia means nowhere.
Mark Zenier mzenier@ eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)
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Author: Simon S AysdieSimon S Aysdie Date: Jul 8, 2007 10:27
On Jul 6, 6:55 pm, MooseFET rahul.net> wrote:> On Jul 6, 12:36 pm, Simon S Aysdie ti.com> wrote:
>>> On Jul 5, 6:48 pm, MooseFET rahul.net> wrote:>>> Do you want police?
>
>> He doesn't want *your* police.
>
> He can't have is own unless he leaves.
Mere question begging.
> In this country, we agree that the police should do
> the police stuff and not bands of armed thugs
> like happens in some other places.
"We" don't agree. The consent of the governed is lacking. They are
empty words -- soporific for the masses.
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Author: James ArthurJames Arthur Date: Jul 8, 2007 10:40
On Jul 8, 5:39 am, James Arthur yahoo.com> wrote:> On Jul 7, 6:32 am, MooseFET rahul.net> wrote:
>>> Here's a few items from the budget:
>
>> Military accounts for $1184 Billion
>> Do you say you get nothing in return for that? I wouldn't really
>> argue with you on that one because the bulk of it is totally a waste
>> since it is being spent on stuff that reduces the security of the
>> nation.
>
>> Other foreign aid etc is $38214 Billion
>> This mostly goes to the governments of other countries to get them to
>> do things that the american people want them to do. Very little is
>> given without some expected action in return.
>
>> Space stuff accounts for $26636 Billion.
>> This can also said to be a waste because I don't like Tang.
>
> Um, are you sure you wouldn't like to add a few decimal points to the ...
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Author: Simon S AysdieSimon S Aysdie Date: Jul 8, 2007 11:01
On Jul 7, 10:11 pm, mzen...@ eskimo.com (Mark Zenier) wrote: >>You are a statist.
>
> Hey, Little Dog, here's a clue. You're just a Bolshevik with a few
> bits flipped. You share the same mechanistic 19th century model
> of human nature (with a few inversions in the axioms) that made
> the Soviet Union such a success.
Amusing that in your world un-state means state.
> It's a pity the Libertarian Paradise of Somalia has fallen to the
> Islamic Courts Union, and then to the Ethiopian (and US) backed
> Provisional Government.
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Author: James ArthurJames Arthur Date: Jul 8, 2007 11:31
On Jul 7, 4:46 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" earthlink.net>
wrote:> MooseFET wrote:
>
>> On Jul 6, 8:40 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" earthlink.net>
>> wrote:>>> James Arthur wrote:
>
>>>> But this presumes that health is improved by hiring more
>>>> middlemen--2nd, 3rd and 4th parties. It isn't. Health is improved by
>>>> walking and eating vegetables. It's cheaper than sickness, and more
>>>> fun.
>
>>> Wow! If you knew what you're talking about the AMA would have a hit
>>> contract out on you. There are a lot of conditions that this simple
>>> minded concept won't prevent, or cure.
>
>> He doesn't seem to notice that in eating fruit, you are assuming it
>> isn't poisonous. Even his own advice needs an FDA.
> ...
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Author: James ArthurJames Arthur Date: Jul 8, 2007 11:55
On Jul 8, 10:31 am, James Arthur yahoo.com> wrote:
A few salient snippets for the time-challenged:
"A recent study showed that Americans with metabolic syndrome account
for $4 of every $10 spent on prescription drugs for adults."
"At least half of patients who have metabolic syndrome and who make no
lifestyle changes to counteract it will likely develop diabetes-a
major risk factor for cardiovascular disease."
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Author: joseph2kjoseph2k Date: Jul 9, 2007 04:01
Simon S Aysdie wrote:
> On Jul 6, 11:59 pm, joseph2k yahoo.com> wrote:>> Simon S Aysdie wrote:
>>> On Jul 5, 6:48 pm, MooseFET rahul.net> wrote:>>>> On Jul 5, 3:54 pm, Richard The Dreaded Libertarian...
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