John Galt:
"Jerry Kraus"
yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:64bebc36-87b4-4628-8c14-87b078e1ae15@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 29, 2:33 pm, "John Galt" bluebottle.com> wrote:> John Galt:"Jerry Kraus"
yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:4a0aa410-b539-4639-be61-615964bcd2bf@8g2000hsu.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 29, 2:07 pm, "Canuck57" unixhome.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>>
tcq.net> wrote in message>
>
>>> On Mar 29, 12:26 pm, Jerry Kraus
yahoo.com> wrote:>>>> On Mar 29, 12:16 pm, Vide...@
tcq.net wrote:
>
>>>>> On Mar 29, 4:04 am, Roy Batty
gmail.com> wrote:>
>
>>>>>>> you are correct.
>>>>>>> here is a little peice i made up explaining
>>>>>>> conservative/libertarian
>>>>>>> lunacy.
>>>>>>> "libertarians/conservatives are the only group of people i know
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> are constantly outraged at the results of their own polices,
>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> blame government(the blaming government part was added by
>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>> fellow, of course he is very smart.)."
>
>>>>>> Libertarians tend to think that they are "free thinkers"
>
>>>>> but everyone of them speaks of living libertarian ideals. i ask
>>>>> them
>>>>> if they live by someone else's rules, then they are not free. i ask
>>>>> them who enforces their rules in a free market. they say the
>>>>> market.
>>>>> then i say who enforces the rules if someone breaks them. they say
>>>>> government. so much for their so-called ideals.
>>>>> what they want is liberty to lie, steal, cheat, and exploit.
>
>>>>>> "Then, when you're driving on the Illinois toll way and you've
>>>>>> picked
>>>>>> up a
>>>>>> Libertarian Hitchhiker he suddenly hits you up for more coin!"
>
>>>>>> - Dee Dee Ramone
>
>>>>>> (Notorious rock and roll writer, drug addict and muse for a great
>>>>>> band, born
>>>>>> in Vancouver Canada)
>
>>>>> pretty right on there.
>
>>>> Libertarians are consummate hypocrites. The typical libertarian is
>>>> retired on a substantial pension, with good health insurance. He
>>>> doesn't need the government for education, employment, health care.
>>>> All he needs government for is protecting his money. So, he feels
>>>> that taxes should only go to the military and the police. Makes
>>>> sense, from his point of view! He doesn't give a damn about the
>>>> future, because he's old, so he sees no point in investing in new
>>>> technologies, or in children, or in much of anything. He just wants
>>>> the "liberty" to use his money -- which was almost certainly
>>>> obtained,
>>>> directly and indirectly, with government assistance -- any way he
>>>> wants, and doesn't want to share it with anybody. They have no real
>>>> opinion other than "what's mine is mine" -- although they got plenty
>>>> of help getting it!
>
>>> and on top of your fine definition, i have yet to get one of them to
>>> move to somalia, where they can walk the talk, that is if they can
>>> survive past the average life span of 47 or so.
>
>> I was thinking Costa Rica. Lower taxes, good literacy rates....wish my
>> wife
>> would let me.
>
>> BTW, Libertarians don't have a high need to tell others how to spend
>> their
>> money. In fact, we believe you should keep more of it and spend it how
>> you
>> wish. Nothing to stop you from starting a collective, put your money in
>> it
>> to provide the services you want. In fact, encouraged.
>
>> It isn't like socialism, don't mix the two. Socialism is an excuse by
>> the
>> immoral to put their hands in your pocket to take out for other things
>> like
>> vote buying, sitting on your ass and let someone else pay for it types.
>> Libertarians tend to be go-getters and not whining slugs at the trough.
>
>> The original author of this has no understanding and knows little of the
>> differences between a liberal and libertarian. Absolutely no clue. Just
>> another socialist in fear of losing his perceived free lunch.- Hide
>> quoted
>> text -
>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Hate to tell you this, moron, but I'm not getting any free lunch.
> From anyone. Actually, I have very little to lose. Which is why my
> position is much stronger than yours, at the moment. Your system is
> collapsing around your ears. Har-dee-Har-dee-Har!!!
>
> Now, I don't know exactly how you "made" your money. I'm sure you
> think you deserve it. You may. You may not.
>
> But, however you got it, it had something to do with conditions
> favorable to you making money. It wasn't just your God-given gifts
> and hard work, I'm afraid, however much you might want to think it
> was. You may have come from a prosperous family that helped you out.
> You may have had government assistance in the form of free health care
> or schooling. You may have had prosperous, successful friends who
> helped you out. But, you got help.
>
> You don't want to share it, because you are selfish, and short-
> sighted. Or, you may simply be an ideological fool who really doesn't
> have much at all, and would probably benefit from government
> intervention, but doesn't care.
>
> In any case, Greed -- and that is all libertarianism is, Greed as a
> God -- doesn't work out too well as a long-term way of running
> things. Freedom is always relative. We live in a material world.
>
> If your point is simply that current American government systems are
> highly corrupt, I would agree with you. They need to function more
> along European lines. And, they will. Your system is collapsing
> around your ears.
>
> *****
> Impressive amount of generalization there.
>
> I'm not an ideologic libertarian by any means, so I have no reason to
> defend
> "them", but suffice to say that the notion that self-reliance and
> independence is driven by greed is, well, pure madness.
>
> I suspect you're using a novel definition of the word.
>
> JG- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Uh...have you ever read the "Wealth of Nations", Adam Smith? Greed is
the basis of Capitalism.
****
I have indeed. Greed is simply the pursuit of self-interest, and if each in
fact pursues their best interests, you have a very efficient way of
determing the prices of goods and services.
****
Self-reliance and independance are unrelated
concepts.
****
They are hardly unrelated; they are at least peripherally related. If a
person wishes to pusue self-interest, they must somehow have the desire and
ability to pursue it effectively. I do not gain the tools required to
succeed in a merocratic environment by collective action -- I gain them by
relying on my own abilities, since the person at my side may very well be
not my facilitator, but my competitor.
*****
They have nothing to do, in themselves, with making money.
If you want to make a lot of money -- the more money, the better --
you are a Capitalist, and you are Greedy. You can be self-reliant and
independant and have very little money, and very little interest in
making a lot of money. I would probably be in that category.
****
There are at least two reasons why people pursue All The Money They Can
Possibly Obtain. Only one of them is Greed.
At any rate, that entire reply entirely avoided the "People are Libertarian
because they are greedy" assertation.
JG
