| Re: Maybe biology can feed with different kind of energies like |
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Group: sci.bio.evolution · Group Profile
Author: LorentzLorentz Date: Sep 2, 2008 22:47
On Aug 28, 11:59=A0am, Jarek Duda gmail.com> wrote:
> Ok - imagine empty tube, which internal surface is covered with
> perfect mirror. Now near it's one end place two separators -
> reflective on the end of the tube and transparent to its middle.
> Place hot gas between the separators. It's isolated thermally, but it
> produce thermal photons. The only way photon can escape is through the
> second end of the tube, so it would work as jet engine - because
> photons have momentum in one side, the tube has to get momentum into
> the second.
True if there are no photons outside the tube. However, an
organism is embedded in an environment that is nearly the same
temperature as itself. So there are as many infrared photons outside
as inside.
In your example, the tube goes nowhere if the energy density
outside the tube has photons with the right density and spectrum to be
at equilibrium with the tube. Because on average every time a photon
leaves the tube, another photon will enter the tube. A photon that
leaves the tube through the silvered part in kicks it left, a photon
entering the tube through the same silvered kicks it right.
Since photons come and go randomly, there is no way to control
the process. You can adjust the degree of silvering, which will
control the rate of photons entering and leaving. However, both rates
will change at the same time. Any organism will have the same
problem.
Organisms can't violate basic physics, or at least have not yet
been experimentally shown to violate basic physics. Photons, even IR
photons, can't violate basic physics.
Organisms are tightly constrained by the laws of thermodynamics.
It isn't obvious that an organism increases entropy because most of
the disorder it produces is microscopic.
I guess the higher energy end of the IR spectrum of the sun could
be used by an autotroph, though not efficiently. However, the photons
in the thermal range of the organism can't be used by the organism.
This is physics, not biology.
Am I addressing your point? I think I understand what you are
trying to say. However, you need to learn a little more physics before
you understand mine.
And we have stream of photons we can use to create work
> somewhere else.
>
> Above example uses that despite that kinetic energy of molecules
> behave randomly, each one has specific movement/oscillation, which
> energy can be changed into ordered one - electromagnetic oscillation
> of photon.
> You will say that the problem is with perfect mirrors, but they are
> just a perfect isolator for thermodynamics of photons.
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