Pioneer radiation pressure
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Pioneer radiation pressure         


Author: dearcilla
Date: Aug 4, 2006 17:04

How much radiation pressure is assumed to be acting in the outward
direction? I am wondering how the magnitude compares to the inward
anomaly.
15 Comments
Re: Pioneer radiation pressure         


Date: Aug 4, 2006 17:16

Dear dearcilla:

"dearcilla" gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154736271.281387.269410@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> How much radiation pressure is assumed to be
> acting in the outward direction? I am wondering
> how the magnitude compares to the inward
> anomaly.

Inward anomaly is very constant.

Outward radiation pressure falls off by 1/r^2.

David A. Smith
10 Comments
Re: Pioneer radiation pressure         


Author: George Dishman
Date: Aug 5, 2006 07:37

"N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" nospam.com> wrote in
message news:zrRAg.23077$6w.12503@fed1read11...
> Dear dearcilla:
>
> "dearcilla" gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1154736271.281387.269410@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> How much radiation pressure is assumed to be
>> acting in the outward direction? I am wondering
>> how the magnitude compares to the inward
>> anomaly.
>
> Inward anomaly is very constant.
>
> Outward radiation pressure falls off by 1/r^2.

To add a little detail:

The outward radiation pressure from the Sun
was comparable to the anomaly at about 13 AU
and much smaller over the range considered.
Show full article (1.11Kb)
9 Comments
Re: Pioneer radiation pressure         


Date: Aug 5, 2006 09:00

Dear George Dishman:

"George Dishman" briar.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:eb29ls$gms$1@news.freedom2surf.net...

Thanks for the more complete answer.
...
> The telemetry radio beam pushing away from
> Earth is 8W while the anomaly is equivalent
> to the radiation pressure from a beam of 63W.

... and directed in the other direction.
> The total radiation from the RTGs is about 2kW
> so if that was 1023W away from the Sun and
> 977W towards the Sun, it would explain the
> anomaly. That means a difference in emissivity
> of about 6.3% between the sides of the RTG but
> nobody has any idea how such a large difference
> could be produced.
Show full article (1.38Kb)
4 Comments
Re: Pioneer radiation pressure         


Author: George Dishman
Date: Aug 5, 2006 11:40

"N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" nospam.com> wrote in
message news:Ag3Bg.23485$6w.2477@fed1read11...
> Dear George Dishman:
>
> "George Dishman" briar.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:eb29ls$gms$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
>
> Thanks for the more complete answer.
> ...
>> The telemetry radio beam pushing away from
>> Earth is 8W while the anomaly is equivalent
>> to the radiation pressure from a beam of 63W.
>
> ... and directed in the other direction.

Yes.
Show full article (2.82Kb)
3 Comments
Re: Pioneer radiation pressure         


Date: Aug 5, 2006 14:08

Dear George Dishman:

"George Dishman" briar.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:eb2ntq$pk0$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
>
> "N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" nospam.com>
> wrote in message news:Ag3Bg...
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2 Comments
Re: Pioneer radiation pressure         


Author: George Dishman
Date: Aug 6, 2006 01:46

"N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" nospam.com> wrote in
message news:SM7Bg.23488$6w.20475@fed1read11...
> Dear George Dishman:
...
>> The sampling rate was generally once per minute.
>
> So more than enough to "average out" between velocity samplings.

Yes.
>>> - the RTG is off axis perhaps even in line-of-sight
>>> to the Sun,
>>
>> The two RTGs were on booms about 3m out from
>> the axis perpendicular to the line to the Sun and
>> behind the dish.
>
> Couldn't tell the geometry very well from the picture I saw. But really
> sure that even half the heat output could *not* be directed Sunward.
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1 Comment
Re: Pioneer radiation pressure         


Date: Aug 6, 2006 08:57

Dear George Dishman:

"George Dishman" briar.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:eb49fu$m2t$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
>
> "N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" nospam.com>
> wrote in message news:SM7Bg...
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Re: Pioneer radiation pressure         


Author: Steve Willner
Date: Aug 10, 2006 15:41

In article news.freedom2surf.net>,
"George Dishman" briar.demon.co.uk> writes:
> The telemetry radio beam pushing away from
> Earth is 8W while the anomaly is equivalent
> to the radiation pressure from a beam of 63W.
>
> The total radiation from the RTGs is about 2kW...

Have you seen any pictures or diagrams of what Pioneer looks like
from the vantage point of one of the RTGs? That might give a hint of
where asymmetric radiation pressure could be coming from. I realize
the experts don't think this is the explanation, but it seems hard to
rule out.

--
Steve Willner Phone 617-495-7123 swillner@cfa.harvard.edu
Cambridge, MA 02138 USA
(Please email your reply if you want to be sure I see it; include a
valid Reply-To address to receive an acknowledgement. Commercial
email may be sent to your ISP.)
3 Comments
Re: Pioneer radiation pressure         


Author: Jeff Root
Date: Aug 10, 2006 19:02

Steve Willner wrote:
> Have you seen any pictures or diagrams of what Pioneer looks
> like from the vantage point of one of the RTGs? That might
> give a hint of where asymmetric radiation pressure could be
> coming from. I realize the experts don't think this is the
> explanation, but it seems hard to rule out.

That's exactly what I think. I'm interested in this mainly
because George is, so I read his posts. If I were more fired
up about the subject I would get some 3-D drawing software,
the dimensions of Pioneer, and the detailed thermal gradients
and reflectivities of all the materials on the spacecraft, to
work out exactly what gets radiated where. The base of the
fins must be hotter than the edges; radiation from any point
goes outward in all directions, with some of it reflected and
some absorbed by an adjacent part; a thermal blanket may have
come loose at launch, putting it in a completely unexpected
location, etc., all makes for a problem too hard for me.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis
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