On Jun 16, 1:27 pm, Kendall Down spam.co.uk> wrote:

Coming from Australia, you have a front row seat. She
lives in Sydney. I had a 4 year association with her
on the Christian Origins Yahoo Group where I was Moderator.

Narrowly constructed, the issue that might interest you is
whether any critics ever demonstrated a flaw in her
her explanation of what other archaeologists have found
at Qumran and its outposts - a network of archaeological
sites for the ascetics of the separated community
following variations of the solar or lunisolar calendar.

I tell you there is nonesuch anywhere in the literature
over the past 25 years. Also, she has been to Qumran
where she directly dealt with physical evidence, which
I can point you to, if you are interested. I don't now
make a big deal of her doing archaeology there but I
say she was making identifications on a vast range
of nitty-gritty detail from contents in DSS/NT that
stagger the mind.

Last, as an archaeologist you should be aware of her
publication -

"The Qumran Sundial as an Odometer using Fixed
Lengths of Hours”, Dead Sea Discoveries,
9, 3, 2002, pp. 347-363.

Let's say a bit more on substance even if it contradicts
you or the detail turns you off. As an archaeologist you
know no artefacts are found unless the spade turns the
earth. IOW I put blame and censure on the entire
scholarly community for this scandal that does a deep
disservice to the public.

Further review of some important observations of Dr. Thiering -

The classical or high Essenes are phases 1a and 1b; the low Essenes
are phase II.

It is instructive to read her Plan of Qumran to describe the
archaeological site, pgs 312-317 -

Thiering, B. E. (Barbara Elizabeth)
Jesus the man : decoding the real story of Jesus and Mary Magdalene
[please Editorial and Customer Review on amazon.com]

Right off the bat, she brings up "the well grounded assumption of
symmetry in all the activities of Essenes".

"Although at first sight there appears only to be a general harmony,
closer study shows that the buildings had an exact plan. The main
buildings and installations were governed by a square of 150 x 150
cubits, divided into four squares of 75 x 75 cubits." (p 313)

Fig 7 shows the four squares for the Plan of Qumran Buildings.

---

"In the first phase of occupation (1a) two stepped cisterns (A and B,
Fig. 7) were built close to the well, with several rooms around them.
A simple enclosure, retained from early Israelite times, stretched
to the east. The position of the cisterns already indicates
that the leaders had settled near the well, while workers
concerned with the pottery kiln that was installed at this
time on the far eastern side were relegated to the east.
It was from this phase, as it appears, that the settlement
was called 'the potters' field', the name used for it in
Mt 27:7. It appears from the reconstruction of the
chronology that in 140 BC the Essenes had been
expelled here, 'returning to the land of their desolation'
(TLevi 17:10). A group of priests took up the space
around the well, and their acolytes, celibates of the
kind that had long been taken into the solar shrines,
became the workers. One of their occupations was
the making of pots and dishes of the of the special
shape required for the sacred meals and libations." (p 312)

---

"(The outer hall outside the Israelite wall), opening on to the
southern esplanade, was set up with a system for
flushing the floor. A pipe led into it from the
water system, and the floor was slightly sloping,
so that the water would run through the southern door.
De Vaux, who excavated the Qumran site, considered
that this supported his view that the hall was the
monks' reefectory (ADSS p. 11). It is true that meals
were taken there, as large numbers of dishes were
stacked in the room called the pantry leading off it.
But it would be quite unnecessary to use precious
water, which flowed from the wady only once a year,
simply to clean after meals; a broom would have
served as well! However, the location of the hall
outside the walls suggests that it was for the
meals of visiting village pilgrims. On the view that
a man who had recently had sexual intercourse
could defile a holy area (11QT 45:11),
it would be necessary to use precious water for
ritual washings after the visits of such men. In the
second phase, this system was abolished, the floor
being levelled and the conduit pipe blocked
(ADSS p. 26). This accords with the reconstruction
of the history given here, that the second phase saw
an occupation by the 'seekers-after-smooth-things',
who engaged in 'loose living' by strict Palestinian
Essene standards. They no longer held that sex defiled
the area." (p 313)

----- Why members of the Qumran sect were in some way Essene
[extracted from Chapter 2 of her 2006 book]

The two groups, the Qumran sect and the early Christians,
lived in the same small area at about the same time. Both
met every day for a sacred meal of bread and wine to which
only initiates were admitted. 1QS 6:2-7, 1QSa 2:11-22; A 4:42-46.

Both practised community sharing of property, a most
unusual practice for Jews. Both valued celibacy, the
Qumran sect very strongly, the Christians moderately.
Both used baptism as a method of initiation, and both
looked forward to a coming apocalyptic crisis
which would usher in a new messianic age.

---

community of property
1QS 1:12, 1QS 6:22; A 2:45,4:34-35
celibacy
11QT 45:11-12; Rev 14:3-4, 1 Cor 7:8-9; Mt 19:10-12
baptism
1QS 3:4-5, 1QS 5:13; Jn 4:1-2, A 2:41
apocalyptic crisis
1QM, 1QH 3:19-36; Mk 13

They used the same names for themselves: both called
themselves "the Way", "the New Covenant", "Son of Light".

1QS 5:24, 8:10,13, 9:18, 9:21. "The same absolute
use of 'the Way' (as in Acts) occurs in the Qumran
writings to designate the mode of life of the Essenes".
See Fitzmeyer, SEMITIC BACKGROUND, p. 282.

New Covenant
CD 6;19, 8:21; 19:33, 20:12; Lk 22:20, 1 Cor 11:25
Sons of Light
1QS 1:9, 1QM 1:1, Jn 12:36

Both had a branch in Damascus, again using
the name "the Way".

CD 1:13, A 9:1-2

They were governed by bishops, who had similar
functions in both cases.

1QS 6:12, 20, CD 9:18; 1 Tim 3:2, 1 Pet 2:25
See Thiering, "Mebaqqer and Episkopos in the
Light of the Temple Scroll"

Each lived in the expectation of a New Jerusalem,
with an identical architectural plan: foursquare, with
three gates on each side, for the twelve tribes.

11QT 39, 44; Rev 21:10-13, 7:5-8 See Thiering,
"Date of Composition of the Temple Scroll"

They have numerous terms in common, with closely
parallel passages in both sets of literature.

1QS 3:18 with Ep. Barn. 18 (the two Ways of Light
and Darkness). 2 Cor 6:14-7:1 has been recognised as
"Qumranian in both thought and style; a meteor fallen
from the heaven of Qumran into Paul's epistle" (Benoit in
Murphy-O'Connor, PAUL AND QUMRAN, p. 5)

There is NO DOUBT that the members of the Qumran
sect were in some way Essene, although certain features
of their life show that they went beyond the Essenes.

But the sacred meal, community of property, and
celibacy have been enough to identify them with the
Essenes, one of the three great divisions of Jews
described by Josephus, Philo, Pliny and other ancient writers.

Josephus, WAR 2:119-161; Philo, EVERY GOOD MAN; Pliny, NAT. HIST.
5:73

The nineteenth century French scholar Renan was
justified to say of Christianity - "an Essenism that had succeeded".

Renan, HISTOIRE DU PEUPLE D'ISRAEL, vol 5, pp. 70ff.

David Christainsen