takes 1 5 gallons gasoline to produce 1 gallon ethanol

Re: takes 1.5 gallons gasoline to produce 1 gallon ethanol in modern agriculture

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Re: takes 1.5 gallons gasoline to produce 1 gallon ethanol in modern agriculture

Author: lijukc2002
Date: Aug 16, 2006 09:41

me wrote:

> habshi wrote:

>> Look, there's no way we could even grow enough
>> biofuels to 'power' the number of people added
>> to this planet with each passing year, let alone
>> feed them. It's not a scalable solution. People
>> that think it is don't understand the magnitude
>> of our current energy consumption. 84 million
>> barrels of oil each day,

>
> Case study:
> How much land would be necessary to grow enough biomass to replace 4 billion
> tons of oil per year? (This would require production of at least several
> tons of biomass per human per year).

I assume that this article is a continuation of an ongoing or previous
discussion. Looking at the title of the article I am wondering how it
was concluded that the amount of energy required to produce...

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Re: takes 1.5 gallons gasoline to produce 1 gallon ethanol in modern agriculture

Author: me
Date: Aug 16, 2006 10:28

lijukc2002@yahoo.ca wrote:

> me wrote:

>> habshi wrote:

>>> Look, there's no way we could even grow enough
>>> biofuels to 'power' the number of people added
>>> to this planet with each passing year, let alone
>>> feed them. It's not a scalable solution. People
>>> that think it is don't understand the magnitude
>>> of our current energy consumption. 84 million
>>> barrels of oil each day,

>>
>> Case study:
>> How much land would be necessary to grow enough biomass to replace 4
>> billion tons of oil per year? (This would require production of at least
>> several tons of biomass per human per year).

>
> I assume that this article is a continuation of an ongoing or previous
> discussion. Looking at the title of the article I am wondering how it
> was concluded that the amount of energy required to produce one liter
> of ethanol by modern agriculture methods is equivalent to that ...

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Re: takes 1.5 gallons gasoline to produce 1 gallon ethanol in modern

Author: Eeyore
Date: Aug 16, 2006 12:03

me wrote:

> So, to produce 4 billion tons per year would require over 4 trillion sq.m.
> which is over 4 million square km. To produce it from agricultural waste
> might require cultivation of many times that area. The whole world has only
> 15 million square km of arable land.

I guess energy efficiency never entered your mind so that so much isn't needed ?

Graham

55 Comments

Re: takes 1.5 gallons gasoline to produce 1 gallon ethanol in modern agriculture

Author: me
Date: Aug 16, 2006 12:24

Eeyore wrote:

> me wrote:

>> So, to produce 4 billion tons per year would require over 4 trillion
>> sq.m. which is over 4 million square km. To produce it from agricultural
>> waste might require cultivation of many times that area. The whole world
>> has only 15 million square km of arable land.

>
> I guess energy efficiency never entered your mind so that so much isn't
> needed ?

What energy efficiency? Crops are already being cultivated with whatever
energy input; if 10 million sq. km. are being cultivated, there is already
biomass refuse left over after crops are harvested from that much land. So,
the primary efficiency question is how much alcohol can be produced from
this refuse relative to the amount of alcohol that can be produced from the
crop that yields the most alcohol.

52 Comments

Re: takes 1.5 gallons gasoline to produce 1 gallon ethanol in modern

Author: Eeyore
Date: Aug 16, 2006 12:59

me wrote:

> Eeyore wrote:

>> me wrote:

>>> So, to produce 4 billion tons per year would require over 4 trillion
>>> sq.m. which is over 4 million square km. To produce it from agricultural
>>> waste might require cultivation of many times that area. The whole world
>>> has only 15 million square km of arable land.

>>
>> I guess energy efficiency never entered your mind so that so much isn't
>> needed ?

>
> What energy efficiency?

Things like not driving 7 litre V-8 SUVs for example ! Installing lots of
insulation in houses instead of the bare minimum. Using CFL lighting. Simple
things.

Graham

48 Comments

Re: takes 1.5 gallons gasoline to produce 1 gallon ethanol in modern agriculture

Date: Aug 16, 2006 21:02

Its negative if you could labor , the farmers wages , tractor
costs , fuel costs etc.

18 Comments

Re: takes 1.5 gallons gasoline to produce 1 gallon ethanol in modern agriculture

Date: Aug 16, 2006 21:03

`Bottom posted where no one will ever bother scrolling down and
reading it .

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 12:28:43 -0500, me noreply.net> wrote:

lijukc2002@yahoo.ca wrote:

Calculating from this, it takes over 1000 sq. m. of sugarcane
plantation to
produce 1 ton of ethanol per year:
http://www.brazil.studyintl.com/news/agnews/agnews_sugarcane.htm

So, to produce 4 billion tons per year would require over 4 trillion
sq.m.
which is over 4 million square km. To produce it from agricultural
waste
might require cultivation of many times that area. The whole world has
only
15 million square km of arable land.

no comments

Re: takes 1.5 gallons gasoline to produce 1 gallon ethanol in modern

Author: Eeyore
Date: Aug 16, 2006 13:01

me wrote:

> Eeyore wrote:

>> me wrote:

>>> So, to produce 4 billion tons per year would require over 4 trillion
>>> sq.m. which is over 4 million square km. To produce it from agricultural
>>> waste might require...

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Re: takes 1.5 gallons gasoline to produce 1 gallon ethanol in modern agriculture

Author: me
Date: Aug 16, 2006 15:31

habshi wrote:

> Its negative if you could labor , the farmers wages , tractor
> costs , fuel costs etc.

Then, why does Brazil bother to produce ethanol?

17 Comments

Re: takes 1.5 gallons gasoline to produce 1 gallon ethanol in modern

Author: Dan Bloomquist
Date: Aug 16, 2006 15:45

Eeyore wrote:

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