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Date: Apr 26, 2008 13:24
> In article earthlink.com>,
> "HeyBub" NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>>> Don Klipstein wrote:
>>>
>>> I would encourange gardening to combat the inflation in
>>> whatever/whoever is increasing the size of their slices of the pie.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Gardening works if it attracts rabbits.
>>
>> Remember, vegetables are not food; vegetables are what food eats.
>
> Sounds like my favorite bumper sticker: "If we're not supposed to eat
> animals, why are they made of meat?"
EXACTLY! Carbs are what food eats.
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Author: HeyBubHeyBub Date: Apr 26, 2008 17:15
Dan Espen wrote:
>
> Most famines are caused by wars or natural catastrophes.
> Democracies were pretty uncommon in the pre-industrial era.
>
> I'm at a loss to understand what the point is.
The point is that famines are caused by political systems. In a functioning
democracy, food can be supplied by the central government. In other words, a
democratic government is the solution to difficulties caused by natural
disasters. In totalitarian governments, often the government is the cause of
the famine. For current examples, consider North Korea, Zimbabwe, and Sudan.
>
> The cures for famine come from modern industry and peace.
> Democracies may lead to more peace but I think that's unproven.
> We can certainly see counter examples in modern times.
North Korea and Zimbabwe are both at peace. Don't know about Zim, but North
Korea certainly has the capacity for modern industry - witness their nuclear
program.
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Author: habshihabshi Date: Apr 26, 2008 17:39
As long as the oil is there food can be produced. Once it runs
out hundreds of millions will starve to death
Bumper boro crop: But what next?
Ahsan Mansur
BANGLADESH is at the threshold of a massive bumper boro crop. Reports
from all across the country point to a potential boro output well
above the ambitious government target of 17.5 million tons. This is
certainly the best news for the country and the government besieged by
the surge in rice price all across the globe and the danger of food
shortage.
The excellent outlook for boro also comes on the heels of bumper wheat
and potato crops. This outlook also poses important policy
opportunities and challenges for the government to reestablish our
agriculture policy on a sustainable footing, consistent with the
objectives of making Bangladesh self-sufficient in food, alleviating
social and political tensions arising from the high food prices, and
at the same time eliminating emerging fiscal imbalances.
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Author: Rod SpeedRod Speed Date: Apr 26, 2008 18:13
> As long as the oil is there food can be produced. Once it runs out
It wont ever 'run out', just get more expensive.
> hundreds of millions will starve to death
Not necessarily.
> Bumper boro crop: But what next?
> Ahsan Mansur
> BANGLADESH is at the threshold of a massive bumper boro crop.
> Reports from all across the country point to a potential boro output
> well above the ambitious government target of 17.5 million tons. This is
> certainly the best news for the country and the government besieged by
> the surge in rice price all across the globe and the danger of food shortage.
There is no danger of food shortage.
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Author: Rod SpeedRod Speed Date: Apr 26, 2008 18:17
HeyBub NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote> Dan Espen wrote
>> Most famines are caused by wars or natural catastrophes.
>> Democracies were pretty uncommon in the pre-industrial era.
>> I'm at a loss to understand what the point is.
> The point is that famines are caused by political systems.
Pigs arse they are. The vast bulk of them were caused by natural catastrophes like drought.
> In a functioning democracy, food can be supplied by the central government.
You dont need a democracy to do that.
> In other words, a democratic government is the solution to difficulties caused by natural disasters.
Different matter entirely to what the cause of the famine was.
> In totalitarian governments, often the government is the cause of the famine.
Nope, the natural disaster was.
> For current examples, consider North Korea, Zimbabwe, and Sudan.
There is no famine in Zimbabwe and we have seen some famines in democracys too.
>> The cures for famine come from modern industry and peace.
>> Democracies may lead to more peace but I think that's unproven.
>> We can certainly see counter examples in modern times.
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Author: jtnospamjtnospam Date: Apr 26, 2008 18:32
On Apr 25, 2:08Â pm, Kurt Ullman yahoo.com> wrote:>> HeyBub NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:>>> aspasia wrote:
>
>>>> Or rather corn ethanol demand was craftily engineered by influential
>>>> agribusinessmen in certain "heartland" states, shoveling out their
>>>> contributions to our beloved Congress-whores. Â They did not care what
>>>> ripple effects this would create in the Third World, where people are
>>>> now starving.  Effects even felt in our  neighbor to the South, where
>>>> the price of corn went through the ceiling, affecting tortillas -- Â a
>>>> standard food, like wheat bread  in the States.
>
>>> There has never been a famine in a democracy.
>
>> Wrong.
>
> Â Â Name one, if you would be so kind. I can't think of any. ...
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Author: jtnospamjtnospam Date: Apr 26, 2008 18:59
> In w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
>
> annezie wrote:>>I think growing a garden is the smart thing to do this year.
>
>>I went and got some more plants today.
>
>>About high prices: I have noticed that bread is a lot higher too. At
>>least a dollar more per loaf here in Kentucky, which to me is a lot.
>
> Â Even at today's high prices, the wheat in a loaf of bread costs about
> 20 cents or somewhat less.
>
> Â If I understand right, wheat prices at the Chicago Board of Trade most
> recently went for $8-$8.09 per bushel. Â (The price peaked in late
> February, a bit over $12 at Chicago Board of Trade and about $17 at
> Minneapolis Board of Trade IIUC.)
>
> Â A bushel of wheat weighs 60 pounds. Â That has wheat costing about 8.3 ...
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Author: Dan EspenDan Espen Date: Apr 26, 2008 19:08
"HeyBub" NOSPAMgmail.com> writes:
> Dan Espen wrote:
>>
>> Most famines are caused by wars or natural catastrophes.
>> Democracies were pretty uncommon in the pre-industrial era.
>>
>> I'm at a loss to understand what the point is.
>
> The point is that famines are caused by political systems.
Disagree. Look at the list again.
> In a functioning
> democracy, food can be supplied by the central government.
Governments don't supply food.
If there is no food you have a famine.
Theoretically a totalitarian government would have an
easier job of seizing food and giving it away.
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Author: Rod SpeedRod Speed Date: Apr 26, 2008 19:09
>> In
>> w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>> annezie wrote:>>> I think growing a garden is the smart thing to do this year.
>>
>>> I went and got some more plants today.
>>
>>> About high prices: I have noticed that bread is a lot higher too. At
>>> least a dollar more per loaf here in Kentucky, which to me is a lot.
>>
>> Even at today's high prices, the wheat in a loaf of bread costs about
>> 20 cents or somewhat less.
>>
>> If I understand right, wheat prices at the Chicago Board of Trade
>> most recently went for $8-$8.09 per bushel. (The price peaked in late
>> February, a bit over $12 at Chicago Board of Trade and about $17 at
>> Minneapolis Board of Trade IIUC.) ...
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Author: Rod SpeedRod Speed Date: Apr 26, 2008 19:19
Dan Espen MORE.mk.SPAMtelcordia.com> wrote> HeyBub NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote>> Dan Espen wrote
>>> Most famines are caused by wars or natural catastrophes.
>>> Democracies were pretty uncommon in the pre-industrial era.
>>> I'm at a loss to understand what the point is.
>> The point is that famines are caused by political systems.
> Disagree. Look at the list again.
>> In a functioning democracy, food can be supplied by the central government.
> Governments don't supply food.
Yes they do, most obviously when first world govts supply food to the third world when there is a famine.
> If there is no food you have a famine.
There is always food somewhere.
> Theoretically a totalitarian government would have
> an easier job of seizing food and giving it away.
In practice they hardly ever bother to do that.
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