> much of really real and I found his initiating post offensive. It shows some
> one with little interaction with jewish folk or isrealis. Neighborhood bully
> may not be dylan's best song, but it has a pretty good point--the bombs were
> meant for him, he was supposed to feel bad?
>
> To blame everything on isreal is just, well nutty. (or worse). It's a cool
> country, has actually made some innovations in science and medicine that are
> pretty remarkable and one can criticize the government, wish for the return to
> 67 borders, but how come isreal should give up this territory but the
> palestinians don't have to give up the right of return, and the palestinians do not
> want to actually define what they mean by that.
>
> Anyway, I offer no solutions on the road map to peace and all that. I do
> know one thing, I've met some isrealis in my time, friends and such. They're fun
> and interesting. I've been thinking about them recently, because I am
> actually working with a fellow, from like brooklyn, ultra orthodox dude who is
> living in the west bank and declares himself a zionist. It's pretty wild and there
> is a real tension between those ultras and isrealis.
>
> But I digress. So, I'm going to take note with something Marty said, and I
> apologize cause I like Marty, like his posts and respect him. In other words,
> the opposite of how I feel about the progenitor of this thread.
>
> But I think he's dead wrong about Jimmy Carter
>
>> Jimmy Carter is naive.
>> Even Obama says that. I never called Carter a
>> traitor. I just think he is wrong, misguided, and full of himself. It's
>> why many former staffers at The Carter Center have quit. He calls for
>> Israel to compromise but offers "understanding" to Hamas, which shows no
>> interest whatsoever in compromising in order to achieve peace. You have
>> a habit of trying to put words in other people's mouths.
>
> Okay, I agree with the last part, which is not about Carter. I don't think
> offering "understanding" to Hamas is the same as agreeing with Hamas. I am
> perplexed at this protest against Carter speaking with Hamas, which was probably
> done in cooperation with isreal and the U.S. so they could have plausible
> deniability. Hamas is doing terrorist attacks against Isreal, yes, but who else
> are you going to speak peace with. You speak peace with the guys causing war.
> Hamas was elected. I honestly think what Carter did was brave, and
> intelligent and a step in the right direction. Disagree, but what other recent steps
> were better?
>
> So, this comes to this whole issue of we don't negotiate with terrorist.
> Obama getting called an appeaser cause he suggests talking with Iran. In no way
> I am suggesting we don't fight wars or show military responses or anything,
> but let's face it, in the Iraqi civil war which we precipitated and are in the
> middle of, we talk to the terrorits. Pakistan, who has been sheilding osama
> bin laden, is a military dictorshp. Saudi Arabi, which funds plenty of
> terrorism against isreal, is likewise a dictoraship. Perhaps our support for them is
> a reason why bush has failed.
>
> It's hypocritical to think that hamas is somehow worse than saudi arabia. Or
> Iran or Syria. I mean, really. Jordan and Isreal have made peace, yet they
> were at war. We talked with the PLO, yet they were terrorists.
> What carter did, speaking with Hamas, has to be wave of the future and it is
> probably happening already on levels we don't know about, or about issues we
> don't care about with say, Algeria.
>
> Look, Arabs need to recognize Isreal. And it's going to take a generation
> after the two state solution is in place for folks to begin to get over it. I
> don't have an answer of how to get that two state solution in place, but I just
> know the answer is, not to talk to Hamas ever.
>
> Anyway, I dug what Carter did and in general, support and admire him. Don't
> talk about that with my isreali friends (or the zionists ones).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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