On Apr 18, 11:15 pm, Derek Janssen
comcast.net> wrote:> Terrence Briggs wrote:
>
>>>And at this point in the discussion, we start bringing back the days of
>>>when there *was* no DVD, there *was* no Bleach on Cartoon Network,
>>>anything subtitled you found on the campus-club underground, and people
>>>considered themselves "anime experts" because they'd gone to see GitS at
>>>the college theater.
>>>It's been a trickle-down effect over the last fifteen years--But now we
>>>have anime fans who can get their Naruto or Bleach anywhere they want,
>>>and mainstream NY critics who consider themselves Anime Experts because
>>>they went to see "Metropolis" and "Tokyo Godfathers" in a theater.
>>>(And guess it's some kind of Taboo-game that they have to use the words
>>>"US", "Kiddie" and "Sandbox" somewhere in their rave reviews, kind of a
>>>code-signal.)
>
>> So... you don't think that Japanese animators are telling more
>> ambitious, mature stories than their American counterparts?
>
> No, I just don't throw my big white gaijin arms around it and horsewhip
> the local product because of it, in my newfound fervor.
In all fairness to the local product, I defended all three of this
year's Best Animated Feature nominees against horsewhippers. In
fairness to Paprika, if it had been eligible last year, I would have
have put it in Cars' spot. But that's just me.
>> If you don't want to go there, do you at least agree that Paprika is
>> symbolic of the kind of film that no major American studio would DARE
>> to animate right now?
>
> You might want to rephrase that question... ;)
I'm open to suggestions. And please put on your tact hat before
rephrasing, please :-)
>> Do you walk out of Paprika saying "Nah, I'd rather watch Azumanga
>> Daioh"?
>
> ...HELL, YES!!! >: 0
The point I'm making is that AD aims far lower on the scale of
narrative ambition that Paprika. I don't walk out of, say, Akira
Kurosawa's Ran and say "I'd rather watch Mulan". By the same token, I
wouldn't demand that Japanese art film newbies stick with lighter,
less challenging Japanese TV shows, because they didn't like Paprika.
You don't advance the art form by spitting on ANY attempt to be
unconventional, serious, or unconventionally serious. And, to wit,
you don't advance the art form by dismissing conventionally told grade-
schooler-friendly stories that are at least well-crafted (i.e., Toy
Story, Incredibles, Finding Nemo).
My argument, as always, is that we have PLENTY of well-crafted,
conventionally told, grade-schooler friendly stories on this side of
the Pacific. Would any of my North American brothers and sisters care
to break convention, for a change? "Gotta grow up sometime", goes the
theme song to Swan's Crossing :P
>>>...And for the record, more mainstream people did go to see "Howl"'s
>>>than went to see "Spirited" (most of whom had never seen anime before SA)--
>>>And I seem to recall fewer people enjoyed it.
>
>> I don't recall HMC's box office total being significantly higher than
>> SA. I can't say for sure that HMC's audience wasn't just composed of
>> SA converts and anime fans.
>
> I can remember the HMC audience was divided into two distinct types:
> Those who hadn't heard of Miyazaki or anime before SA, who thought HMC
> was a "dazzling, inventive fairytale"...
> And those who HAD heard of Miyazaki before SA, and groaned that Hayao
> threw the book out the window, assembled the movie out of spare scraps
> from all his old films, and was pretty much coasting on fumes for this one.
This one sounds like Derek Janssen :-)
Who readOn Apr 18, 11:15 pm, Derek Janssen
comcast.net> wrote:> Terrence Briggs wrote:
>
>>>And at this point in the discussion, we start bringing back the days of
>>>when there *was* no DVD, there *was* no Bleach on Cartoon Network,
>>>anything subtitled you found on the campus-club underground, and people
>>>considered themselves "anime experts" because they'd gone to see GitS at
>>>the college theater.
>>>It's been a trickle-down effect over the last fifteen years--But now we
>>>have anime fans who can get their Naruto or Bleach anywhere they want,
>>>and mainstream NY critics who consider themselves Anime Experts because
>>>they went to see "Metropolis" and "Tokyo Godfathers" in a theater.
>>>(And guess it's some kind of Taboo-game that they have to use the words
>>>"US", "Kiddie" and "Sandbox" somewhere in their rave reviews, kind of a
>>>code-signal.)
>
>> So... you don't think that Japanese animators are telling more
>> ambitious, mature stories than their American counterparts?
>
> No, I just don't throw my big white gaijin arms around it and horsewhip
> the local product because of it, in my newfound fervor.
In all fairness to the local product, I defended all three of this
year's Best Animated Feature nominees against horsewhippers. In
fairness to Paprika, if it had been eligible last year, I would have
have put it in Cars' spot. But that's just me.
>> If you don't want to go there, do you at least agree that Paprika is
>> symbolic of the kind of film that no major American studio would DARE
>> to animate right now?
>
> You might want to rephrase that question... ;)
I'm open to suggestions. And please put on your tact hat before
rephrasing, please :-)
>> Do you walk out of Paprika saying "Nah, I'd rather watch Azumanga
>> Daioh"?
>
> ...HELL, YES!!! >: 0
The point I'm making is that AD aims far lower on the scale of
narrative ambition that Paprika. I don't walk out of, say, Akira
Kurosawa's Ran and say "I'd rather watch Mulan". By the same token, I
wouldn't demand that Japanese art film newbies stick with lighter,
less challenging Japanese TV shows, because they didn't like Paprika.
You don't advance the art form by spitting on ANY attempt to be
unconventional, serious, or unconventionally serious.
>>>...And for the record, more mainstream people did go to see "Howl"'s
>>>than went to see "Spirited" (most of whom had never seen anime before SA)--
>>>And I seem to recall fewer people enjoyed it.
>
>> I don't recall HMC's box office total being significantly higher than
>> SA. I can't say for sure that HMC's audience wasn't just composed of
>> SA converts and anime fans.
>
> I can remember the HMC audience was divided into two distinct types:
> Those who hadn't heard of Miyazaki or anime before SA, who thought HMC
> was a "dazzling, inventive fairytale"...
The SA converts, then.
> And those who HAD heard of Miyazaki before SA, and groaned that Hayao
> threw the book out the window, assembled the movie out of spare scraps
> from all his old films, and was pretty much coasting on fumes for this one.
This one sounds like Derek Janssen :-)
Dude, how many people read that book? How many of them heard of
Miyazaki? I'm betting you, and about 9 other people.
Obviously, I belong to a hypothetical third group.
> Derek Janssen (which brings us back to the "educated judgment" thing)
> eja...@
comcast.net
I'm afraid that Paprika's North American audience will be too small
educate anyone on anything. You can't start a movement to win the
hearts of minds of the masses with a Sunday conversation club. "So
who did the homework last night? Anyone?"
Terrence Briggs, who figures the June launch won't help. Who wants to
compete with Shrek 3?
Peace to you...
