> whoisthis wrote:

>> In article <48280240$1@clear.net.nz>,
>> "Pooh" wrote:
>>

>>> Laissez-faire wrote:

>>>> Pooh wrote:

>>>>> Rich80105 wrote:

>>>>>> On Mon, 12 May 2008 11:52:11 +1200, "Pooh"
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>

>>>>>>> whoisthis wrote:

>>>>>>>> In article <4826e49f$1@clear.net.nz>,
>>>>>>>> "Pooh" wrote:
>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Rich80105 wrote:

>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 11 May 2008 20:38:14 +1200, whoisthis
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> In article <482692ae$1@clear.net.nz>,
>>>>>>>>>>> "Pooh" wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> whoisthis wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <4826612c$1@clear.net.nz>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Pooh" wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whoisthis wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <482644dc$1@clear.net.nz>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Pooh" wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laissez-faire wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rich80105 wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 10 May 2008 16:19:34 +1200, "Pooh"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whoisthis wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article aioe.org>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grumpyoldhori gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whoisthis wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On a GDP per capita basis Aussies have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> $7000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more than NZers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We need to EARN more to be able to PAY
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So why do the coppers who needed the army
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Solomons to do police work, get paid so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If we can afford to pay coppers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> competitive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wages,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we can afford to pay the military more.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Or, we can watch them piss off across the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tasman.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that is still not earning the NZ economy any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more money
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It just like if the husband starts paying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wife to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do the housework, it does not increase the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> household
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> income, and until the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> household income increases they can not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> afford
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything they'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your forgetting these are the people we need.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just bludgers going it'd be great! But it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> productive, skilled people who are going. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> country
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't afford to lose them, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clark and co arn't doing anything to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> encourage
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stay!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pooh

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't you want less government invovlement in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lives?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep and a good way to start is to reduce taxes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dramatically. Down to 15-25%% flat-tax.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would mean those people leaving wouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based on the punitive interference and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> domination/control
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of a MONEY-HUNGRY communist Helen Clark Labour
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> government.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat tax would be a very good start to getting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> govt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our lives.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You put it so much better than I could have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you:)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pooh

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reduced tax will equal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Less health care
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Less education
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Less law and order
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Less armed forces
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Less roading
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Higher insurance costs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Higher food costs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Higher medical costs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Higher education costs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now lets look at sweeden, bit over twice our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> population (9
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> million) but has a GDP - per capita (PPP):$36,900
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (2007
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> est.) vs NZ
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GDP - per capita (PPP): $27,300 (2007 est.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And yet their tax rate is higher than ours, as is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> welfare and levels of regulation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So its simple to be emotive about simple things,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> factually they do not stack up

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So your saying the govt, couldn't provide our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> currnt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education, health, law and order, armed forces and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roading if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they got rid of the deadwood in the Public
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Service?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They'd be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> twice as effective with a tenth of the managers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at a possible saving of hundreds of millions of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dollars.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ditching most of the little empires that have been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> built up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would do the same. Ditching many of the compliance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beauraucracies would save many more millions of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dollars in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wages.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Less govt doesn't necessarily mean less services.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> managed and funded services.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How would less tax increase insurance, food,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> medical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education costs? Less government means less
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> managers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> means
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more money spent where it's needed, means less
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> waste
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overseas junkets. How would this increase the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> costs on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pooh

>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, you are an experienced manager with thousands
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>>> working below you...?.... no, thought not. Again it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sounds
>>>>>>>>>>>>> impressive doesn't it, but there are no facts to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> back
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> up..... just emotive clap trap

>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You are an experienced manager of thousands? When it
>>>>>>>>>>>> comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>> the Public Service, I've seen how managers have
>>>>>>>>>>>> blossomed like
>>>>>>>>>>>> flowers in spring. I've seen empires created that
>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>> totaly
>>>>>>>>>>>> unnecessary for anyone but the managers over
>>>>>>>>>>>> inflated
>>>>>>>>>>>> ego. If
>>>>>>>>>>>> you think the Public Service is run efficiently and
>>>>>>>>>>>> cost
>>>>>>>>>>>> effective you probably think Hellen is the best PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> countries ever had! Not to mention the tooth fairy,
>>>>>>>>>>>> father
>>>>>>>>>>>> Christmas and the Easter bunny.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Pooh

>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So, I take that as a NO. You have no managerial
>>>>>>>>>>> experience, nor
>>>>>>>>>>> do you have any idea what anyone actually does. All
>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> have to
>>>>>>>>>>> go on is your own opinion.

>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There is no evidence that he is expressing his own
>>>>>>>>>> opinion - it
>>>>>>>>>> may be deliberate misinformation. It is hard to
>>>>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> anyone would carry such blind prejudice and lack of
>>>>>>>>>> logic.

>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Your a prime example of what you acuse me of Rich. What
>>>>>>>>> experience
>>>>>>>>> of the public service have you had? Or are you monarch
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> his own
>>>>>>>>> little dictatorship in the beehive? I've had experience
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> variety of different departments in both stores and
>>>>>>>>> clerical
>>>>>>>>> positions, plus been involved with activities that
>>>>>>>>> looked
>>>>>>>>> at,
>>>>>>>>> amongst other things, misuse of funds and
>>>>>>>>> resources.What I
>>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>>>> isn't just my observatoions. It's been confirmed by
>>>>>>>>> talking
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> fellow public servants from several departments.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Blind prejudice? You think everybody should be like you
>>>>>>>>> parroting
>>>>>>>>> senseless slogans in support of Clarkes mismanagement!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Pooh

>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> LOL, fellow public servants, each of who has their axe
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> grind....
>>>>>>>> oh and the fact they MUST be right because their opinion
>>>>>>>> agreed
>>>>>>>> with yours. Over all I will say there is little if any
>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>> waste
>>>>>>>> in the public sector than there is in the private.

>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you have any knowledge of what happens inside the
>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>> service?
>>>>>>> Any at all? Your like Rich full of excuses so things fit
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> twisted view of the real world.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was not talking just of people with an axe to grind,
>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>> talking
>>>>>>> of people who were looking at ways to save money in the
>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>> service. Most exercises came up with methods of cutting
>>>>>>> expenses
>>>>>>> that were totaly ignored by those at the very top!
>>>>>>> Ignored by
>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>> picking up big preformance bonuses! In fact most agreed
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> investigation of savings was just another example ofhow
>>>>>>> wasteful the
>>>>>>> public service is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pooh

>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is "most agreed" just yourself or did you get a mate to
>>>>>> agree
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> you just to shut you up?

>>>>>
>>>>> See your avoiding the pertinent part of my post and sliding
>>>>> into the
>>>>> shadows again Rich. Guess you have absolutely NO idea of
>>>>> what
>>>>> happens
>>>>> inside the public service. And Iwas talking of people I was
>>>>> working
>>>>> with looking at where savings could be made. Interesting to
>>>>> see
>>>>> your
>>>>> comprehension ability is as usual nil.

>>>>
>>>> Go get the fuckwit, Pooh.
>>>>
>>>> I have plenty of evidence showing the wasteful spending in
>>>> one
>>>> ministry in particular. Unfortunately I am not at liberty to
>>>> provide the details.
>>>>
>>>> But the spending in areas NOT related to the task at hand is
>>>> incredible. Many of millions of dollars virtually goes in
>>>> koha
>>>> for all manner of things. A lot of it to shut people up!
>>>>
>>>> The system IS CORRUPT! That's how socialism works for fuck
>>>> sake!

>>>
>>> I find the head in the sand brigade amusing. The utter faith
>>> in the
>>> fact that the government and it's crats can do no wrong. The
>>> reality
>>> is so far from what they believe.
>>>
>>> Pooh

>>
>> as opposed to those who believe the government can do no right
>> ????
>> The reality is so far from what they believe.

>
> I don't believe that. The government can and has done things I
> applaud
> unreservedly. However it doesn't excuse them going into god
> mode and
> walking roughshod over what the people want rather than what
> THEY
> have decided is best for us. Or to sanction them waste taxpayer
> funds.