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| Re: The Villages are ALL Missing Their Idiots |
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Group: nashville.general · Group Profile
Author: David MoffittDavid Moffitt Date: Oct 9, 2007 21:20
"Olin" comcast.net> wrote in message
news:qsmdnVVeF45m1ZHanZ2dnUVZ_s-pnZ2d@comcast.com...
|
| "David Moffitt" stompingweasels.org> wrote in message
| news:13gofhuolmgk887@corp.supernews.com...
| >
| > "Olin" comcast.net> wrote in message
| > news:JZednXFPCv4OuZHanZ2dnUVZ_h6vnZ2d@comcast.com...
| > |
| > | "David Moffitt" stompingweasels.org> wrote in message
| > | news:13gnkf1t7rgmg72@corp.supernews.com...
| > | >
| > | > "Olin" comcast.net> wrote in message
| > | > news:Xu6dnXtc3JdDYpfanZ2dnUVZ_gydnZ2d@comcast.com...
| > | > |
| > | > | "David Moffitt" stompingweasels.org> wrote in message
| > | > | news:13glr95d82n2l92@corp.supernews.com...
| > | > | >
| > | > | > "Olin" comcast.net> wrote in message
| > | > | > news:5eudnQRkSLrR7JfanZ2dnUVZ_tqtnZ2d@comcast.com...
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | "David Moffitt" stompingweasels.org> wrote in
message
| > | > | > | news:13gko111urcsa68@corp.supernews.com...
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > "Olin" comcast.net> wrote in message
| > | > | > | > news:uK2dnTyb06PnCpTanZ2dnUVZ_rGrnZ2d@comcast.com...
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | "David Moffitt" stompingweasels.org> wrote in
| > message
| > | > | > | > | news:13gcm4kkg4nmj11@corp.supernews.com...
| > | > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > | > "Olin" comcast.net> wrote in message
| > | > | > | > | > news:YOGdnX41K_UrqpvanZ2dnUVZ_h-vnZ2d@comcast.com...
| > | > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | > | "David Moffitt" stompingweasels.org> wrote
in
| > | > message
| > | > | > | > | > | news:13gbh74qlbt3359@corp.supernews.com...
| > | > | > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > | > | > "Olin" comcast.net> wrote in message
| > | > | > | > | > | > news:RtednZ6SwuULMZjanZ2dnUVZ_sKqnZ2d@comcast.com...
| > | > | > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | > | > | "David Moffitt" stompingweasels.org>
wrote
| > in
| > | > | > message
| > | > | > | > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > | > | > | > Walk into any emergency room tonight and see who
| > is
| > | > | > sitting
| > | > | > | > there
| > | > | > | > | > | > waiting
| > | > | > | > | > | > | > to
| > | > | > | > | > | > | > be seen. Who do you think is picking up the tab
| > for
| > | > the
| > | > | > | > healthcare
| > | > | > | > | > of
| > | > | > | > | > | > all
| > | > | > | > | > | > | > of
| > | > | > | > | > | > | > the illegals you sitting there? You are. They
are
| > well
| > | > | > aware
| > | > | > | > that
| > | > | > | > | > they
| > | > | > | > | > | > | > will
| > | > | > | > | > | > | > get their healthcare free. (to them)
| > | > | > | > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | > | > | And you know what?
| > | > | > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > | > | > I worked in healthcare. And you know what about it
| > beyong
| > | > | > | > kneejerking?
| > | > | > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | > | Too many years covering health issues as a reporter
and
| > way
| > | > too
| > | > | > many
| > | > | > | > | > years
| > | > | > | > | > | working in and around the health insurance industry.
| > | > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > | > I sold insurance before going to college and getting an
| > honest
| > | > | > | > vocation.
| > | > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | Yet, these are the people who are currently in charge of
| > health
| > | > | > care,
| > | > | > | > and
| > | > | > | > | apparently the people many would like to see remain in
| > charge
| > of
| > | > | > health
| > | > | > | > | care.
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | Curious, that.
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > I don't like it either. You want to just change the
| > controller.
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | And you apparenty don't.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Not to federal government control. They cannot run the VA
Hospital
| > | > system
| > | > | > much less all of healthcare.
| > | > | >
| > | > |
| > | > | Then, who? What you have now is effectively the same thing, and it
| > just
| > | > | might be easier (stress might) to effect pressure on lawmakers
with
| > some
| > | > | semblance of federal control. Number one, the insurance companies
| > are
| > | > still
| > | > | gonna be mostly in control, but as we've all seen they're now
| > totally
| > in
| > | > | control and effecting every single bugaboo the opponents of any
kind
| > of
| > | > | national insurance plan, system or whatever you want to call it,
| > | > virtually
| > | > | without oversight from anybody.
| > | >
| > | > There is a tremendous amount of federal oversight now. The federal
| > | > government controls when and where you can open a hospital and how
| > many
| > | > beds
| > | > it can contain.
| > | >
| > |
| > | Yet, they've done diddly squat to force carriers to live up to the
| > policies
| > | they sell. Matter of fact, they've relaxed regulation to the point
that
| > even
| > | many business leaders are starting to call for some semblance of
| > regulation
| > | again.
| > |
| > | > |
| > | > | Ya really think the free market has any impact there? Not with the
| > | > insurance
| > | > | giants holding their fingers in both ears and crying, "We can't
hear
| > | > | youuuuuu!"
| > | > |
| > | > | They've effectively convinced even the providers that the whole
| > problem
| > | > is
| > | > | all those sick people just overusing the resource.
| > | > |
| > | > | Take your pick... it's gonna either be increased federal
regulation
| > or
| > | > still
| > | > | more control by an industry that has shown clearly that it cares
| > | > absolutely
| > | > | nothing about its policy holders.
| > | >
| > | > There is no easy answer but having the federal government in total
| > control
| > | > is not the answer.
| > | >
| > |
| > | I've never said it was. What I have specifically said is that the
| > current
| > | system is broken, and I don't see any evidence that any leg of the
| > current
| > | system is listening to much of anybody. Mostly, they're all just
| > lobbying
| > to
| > | protect their own particular turf.
| >
| > SOP for everone.
| >
|
| Sure, but not everyone has the lobby resources of the hospitals, insurance
| carriers, pharmaceuticals and the AMA.
Discounting unions of course.
|
| > |
| > | > |
| > | > | Hell, the pharmaceuticals (hardly known for their altruism) and
| > Wal-Mart
| > | > | (along with a few other pharmacies) are doing far more to help
| > control
| > | > | medical costs than the insurance carriers, hospitals and doctors,
| > and
| > | > | they're NOT doing it by just yelling, "Deny! Deny! Deny!"
| > | > |
| > | > | What you have is a system that is broken, and it's not likely to
| > ever
| > be
| > | > | fixed by allowing it to police itself.
| > | > |
| > | > | What level of public (as in government if you prefer) is required,
I
| > | > have
| > | > no
| > | > | idea, but continuing to allow the fox to guard the henhouse is
| > nothing
| > | > more
| > | > | than and admission that Richard Nixon was right when he said how
| > much
| > he
| > | > | loved managed care plans which increased profit by giving less
care.
| > | >
| > | > Managed healthcare has saved the consumer a lot of money. Would you
| > like
| > | > an
| > | > example?
| > | >
| > |
| > | Oh, I can give you hundreds of examples of how it's saved insurance
| > | carriers, perhaps, billions. Here's one. In a work-related injury,
even
| > a
| > | pre-existing condition is compensable IF it exacerbates that
| > pre-existing
| > | condition. Yet, carriers are getting away with calling those instances
| > | age-related and simply denying the claim. Under current Tennessee law,
| > | that's about the end of the line.
| >
| > Not really. I sued--- won--- and now retired. They said my knee problem
| > was
| > a pre-existing condition that was exacerbated. There was one problem
with
| > their position---- They were the insurer with the first injury to my
knee
| > also.
| >
|
| How long ago.
March 27, 2007
Not at all likely to happen in Tennessee today.
Nashville Tn. 37215
Today, their
| being the insurer in your first knee injury will likely be considered
| grounds to deny on a pre-existing condition.
Didn't work.
|
| Look, I went through this, though I fought teeth and nail. In a recent
wreck
| (I was a passenger) that was work-related, I banged a knee on the
dashboard.
| My boss made me go to a doc-in-the-box to get checked out. Well, I knew
what
| was going to happen. And, it did. The entire exam consisted of forty five
| minutes of filling out paperwork and killing time, and precisely thirteen
| seconds of the "doctor" squeezing my knee and telling me I was fine and
| dandy.
|
| He even admitted to watching me from behind a one-way mirror, and further
| admitted he watched ALL his workers' comp patients in that fashion.
|
| Further, I decided later when the knee started hurting seriously to at
least
| get my orthopedist to check it out a little further. Two calls to the
| carrier to secure a referral, and to this date, three years later, I have
| not yet heard from them.
What Doc in the box did you go to? Did you get an MRI on the knee? You did
have the option of seeing your primary physician for your initial care. Many
people aren't aware because your company wants the cheaper Doc in a box they
have contracted with.
|
| I even informed my boss of that little fact, and neither my supervisor nor
| our branch manager could have cared less.
|
| > And it's not much of a line to begin with.
| > | You, the injured worker, have essentially no say in what kind of
health
| > | care, if any, you get after being hurt. Those decisions are entirely
up
| > to
| > | your employer and their insurance carrier.
| >
| > Not really. Lawyers love cases like that. they even advertise it on TV.
| >
|
| Yes. I've seen the commercials. I've also read recent Tennessee law, and
the
| amounts they can hope to collect are miniscule compared to what they were
| even three or four years ago.
|
| Trust me on this... you have no choice today if you're injured on the job.
I did. Maybe you lacked the knowledge how to squeak the right way.
| The doctors are presented to you in a panel of usually three, and those
are
| the ONLY doctors your workers' comp carrier will even consider paying for.
True. I recommend TOA of orthopaedic problems.
|
| The one good thing is you can opt out of the system and actually get
better
| care and better payment going through your private insurance.
|
| > |
| > | In one case here, a guy was treated with nothing but physical therapy
| > for
| > a
| > | torn rotator cuff, only to be told after that year that HE had waited
| > too
| > | long and there was nothing they could do for him. He was released from
| > care
| > | and his employer immediately fired him..
| >
| > Yep! I'm collecting from an employer right now for that very thing. When
I
| > was 22 I got 4 ribs broken welding on some of those Apts you see on Due
| > West
| > that back up to I65. The doctor returned me to work for light duty and
my
| > employer laid me off. After contacting my lawyer I collected my pay for
6
| > months until my ribs were completely healed. Lawyers love cases like
that.
| > they even advertise it on TV.
| >
|
| When you were 22. The case I cited occured less than five years ago, and
| it's what current Tennessee law (and most other states for that matter)
| allow.
My last one was in March.
|
| The days of a workers' comp injury resulting in a lifelong gravy train are
| over, even in completely legitimate cases. I could cite you fifteen or
| twenty cases where a person is totally disabled and the carrier is still
| coming back, looking for ways to pay for less and less care.
That's typical business for any company.
|
| > |
| > | Yes, I'm quite aware of what "managed care" has come to mean all too
| > often.
| >
| > Managed care also prevent hospitals from running un-necessary tests. In
| > the
| > 80's a person over the age of 50 going into the hospital got a full
blood
| > profile, an upper GI study, gallbladder and a barium enema. When I
worked
| > in
| > the hospital in the early 80's we has an elderly man come in who had
fell
| > on
| > some ice outside his home. He substained a partial fracture of his right
| > elbow and was to be kept overnight for observation. He got out of the
| > hospital 3 weeks later without his gallbladder. He never had a problem
| > with
| > it but his scan showed he had stones. I've got a whole stack of examples
I
| > saw over the years. Are you aware that the government healthcare system
| > called Medicare is managed care?
| >
|
| Yes, I'm well aware of that as well. It's another one of those promises to
| veterans that has never been kept. Actually, there's a very good military
| retiree program called CHAMPUS, but the day you become eligible for
| Medicare, you get kicked off.
Correct.
|
| And, of course, managed care can be most beneficial, especially in
avoiding
| unnecessary tests. Unfortunately, it's also become most beneficial in
| helping carriers avoid paying for completely necessary tests, and to deny
| coverage because you're simply "too old" to waste the resource on.
That is a commonly occurs in socialized medicine. People are found to be too
old for dialysis and it is withdrawn.
|
| >
| >
| > |
| > | > |
| > | > | And the folks who continue to oppose national health care because
| > they
| > | > fear
| > | > | not being able to choose the doctor they want really need to read
| > their
| > | > | policies. It's entirely possible right now that this will happen
to
| > you,
| > | > | even with a doctor you've spent years doing business with.
| > | > |
| > | > | Frankly, I'd be satisfied with legislation that simply requires
| > | > insurance
| > | > | carriers to live by the words in their policies. I'd even allow
them
| > to
| > | > | continue to write those policies in the impossibly convoluted
| > legalese
| > | > they
| > | > | have employed for years. There are lawyers who can read that crap
| > and
| > | > will
| > | > | gladly oppose them in court that already know how to beat them at
| > their
| > | > own
| > | > | game.
| > | > |
| > | > | Of course, much of our governmental effort these past several
years
| > has
| > | > been
| > | > | to pass legislation limiting your ability to fight your carrier,
| > even
| > | > when
| > | > | it can be proven beyond even a shadow of doubt, never mind the
legal
| > | > terms,
| > | > | "preponderance of the evidence" or "reasonable doubt," that either
| > the
| > | > | carrier, the doctor, the hospital or some combination screwed the
| > pooch.
| > | > |
| > | > | And even the "get something for nothing" argument has now carried
| > over
| > | > to
| > | > | patients expecting their policies to cover what they say they'll
| > cover,
| > | > so
| > | > | I'm guessing the current plan is to pay your premiums and never
mind
| > | > getting
| > | > | anything paid for, as stipulated in the policy, at all.
| > | > |
| > | > | Why would one NOT want to change that controller?
| > | >
| > | > I'll make it simple: Under the current system if the hospital or
| > doctor
| > | > makes a mistake can you sue them? Yes. Your insurance company will
| > even
| > | > supply a lawyer. Under the current system if the VA hospital or
doctor
| > | > makes
| > | > a mistake can you sue them? No. Do you really want to lower
healthcare
| > | > costs? Push for tort reforms. (the lawyer lobby will not hear of it)
| > | >
| > |
| > | Yet, there was a recent court ruling that held punitive damages could
| > not
| > be
| > | used to punish a company that had been found liable in a particular
| > claim.
| >
| > Do you mean the lady that was paid just 6 million last week or the one
who
| > collected millions from McDonalds because she was stupid enough to try
and
| > hold a hot cop of coffee with her crotch and drive?
| >
|
| No. This one was from a hurricane case. But, interesting that you bring up
| the Mickey D's lady. Are you aware that she was simply one of 800
potential
| plaintiffs in that particular case? Or, that the customers of that
| particular Mickey D's had been complaining about the temperature of that
| coffee for quite some time before taking their complaints to the Health
| Department, who measured the temperature at just under 200 degrees at time
| of serving.
Gosh and just think coffee is made by boiling water.
|
| That particular Mickey D's refused requests of even their customers, so
that
| lawsuit was about the only recourse left, and the lady that so many have
had
| so much fun with over the years got third degree scald burns in her
crotch!
People also complain that their coffee is too cold. Holding a cup of coffee
in your crotch is stupid any way you look at it.
|
| > |
| > | Say what?
| > |
| > | The abuses of tort law abound, but tort reform that severely limits an
| > | injured party's ability to collect damages is like using a sixteen
pound
| > | sledge as a tack hammer.
| >
| > I'm talking about limiting what you can sue for. Ok a sterilized mouse
in
| > a
| > can of green beans is gross but shouldn't be worth 10 millon to the
person
| > who found it.
| >
|
| And for every case where a ridiculous sum of money is litigated, another
| several hundred very similar cases are flat thrown out of court. And, many
| of the settlements are made simply because the corporation doesn't want to
| be bothered with fighting the battle.
Lawyers depend on it.
|
| A much better method of limiting frivilous lawsuits, IMHO, would be
| legislation that allows a counter-suit on those grounds. If you, the
| original plaintiff, lose, you not only lose your lawsuit, but you get to
pay
| the corporation's legal bills.
Give the man a cigar!
|
| Might even include the plaintiff's lawyer in there too while you're at it,
| and with that consideration, the number of just flat-out ridiculous
lawsuits
| would disappear overnight without limiting anybody's right to sue at all.
|
| If ya wanna take up the court's time, you best bring a good case, or it
| might wind up costing you big time.
|
| >
| > |
| > | As you noted in another post, the simplest way to avoid a long wait in
| > the
| > | ER for a dog bite is to avoid getting bitten by a dog. Same could be
| > said
| > | for the docs, hospitals and pharmacies that get sued over and over and
| > over
| > | and over, and lose more often than not, driving up the cost of
insurance
| > for
| > | docs that are doing business in a forthright and professional manner.
| >
| > Go and try and find an OB doctor. There are very few. Why? Because
people
| > sue them daily if little Suzy is born with a hangnail.
| >
|
| Oh yes, I've heard all the crodocile tear stories. I also know several
| OB/GYNS still in thriving practices, in spite of the high cost of
| malpractice insurance, who don't get sued at all.
Ask them what their fee is and what their malpractice insurance is.
|
| > |
| > | Wanna avoid a lawsuit? Don't screw up and leave crap behind in a
| > surgical
| > | wound.
| >
| > True.
| >
| > Don't give a patient the wrong drugs, causing her skin to slough off
| > | and ending in her death (a fairly recent Nashville case).
| >
| > Yep that was a nasty one. Hidden allergies can be nasty. Medical people
| > are
| > human also and all humans make mistakes. Our mistakes are more messy and
| > mean deep pockets.
| >
|
| But, this one wasn't hidden. If memory serves, the drug in question was
| Sulfa, and her doctor knew about it. Her pharmacy, Walgreens, knew about
it,
| and apparently none of them bothered to check their lists and by the time
| she knew what was going on it was way past too late.
Sad case. That one deserved a law suit. Personally I wouldn't have taken the
medicine. I've been prescribed the wrong medicines myself and refused to
take them. Being informed never hurts.
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