>
> "Olin" comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:irSdnboej5bnea7anZ2dnUVZ_qOknZ2d@comcast.com...
> |
> | "David Moffitt" stompingweasels.org> wrote in message
> | news:13j7h6l7628mfc6@corp.supernews.com...
> | >
> | > "Olin" comcast.net> wrote in message
> | > news:aOCdnWk0vZgbK67anZ2dnUVZ_vKunZ2d@comcast.com...
> | > |
> | > | "David Moffitt" stompingweasels.org> wrote in message
> | > | news:13j6j77cqfcgja5@corp.supernews.com...
> | > | >
> | > | > "jakdedert" bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> | > | > news:DqGYi.29517$N7.6346@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
> | > | > | Boston Blackie (You've got to be freakin' kidding me?) wrote:
> | > | > | > On 2007-11-08 08:39:34 -0600, "David Moffitt" said:
> | > | > | >
> | > | > | >> 14 Reasons to Deport Illegal Aliens...
> | > | > | >>
> | > | > | >> 1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal
> | > aliens
> | > | > each
> | > | > | >> year. http://tinyurl.com/zob77
> | > | > | >
> | > | > | > FAIR rejects criticism that it is racist, xenophobic, and
> | > | > | > anti-immigrant. Such criticisms are leveled not only by
> liberal
> | > and
> | > | > | > pro-immigrant groups, but also by many conservatives and such
> | > | > | > business-oriented publications as the Wall Street Journal. (9)
> | > | > According
> | > | > | > to FAIR, "We have a clear and consistent record of discussing
> | > | > | > immigration policy and how it should be reformed to serve the
> | > | > interests
> | > | > | > of this nation. FAIR has very clearly and consistently drawn
> the
> | > | > | > distinction between immigration policy and immigrants." With
> | > respect
> | > | > to
> | > | > | > charges that the immigration policies it advocates and its
> | > educational
> | > | > | > activities are racist, FAIR responds: "There are always people
> who
> | > | > | > support the right idea for the wrong reasons--but that doesn't
> | > make
> | > | > the
> | > | > | > idea itself wrong. None of this changes the fact that bringing
> a
> | > | > million
> | > | > | > additional people from other countries into this one is
> disruptive
> | > to
> | > | > | > our economy, our society, and our environment. We condemn
> racism.
> | > But
> | > | > we
> | > | > | > also condemn the use of terms such as 'anti-immigrant,'
> 'racist,'
> | > or
> | > | > | > 'xenophobe' as they are used to try to stifle open, honest
> | > discussion
> | > | > of
> | > | > | > how our immigration policy is impacting the country."
> | > | > | >
> | > | > | > Source: http://tinyurl.com/33lduj
> | > | > | >
> | > | > | > (9) "Borderline Republicans," Wall Street Journal, June 17,
> 2004.
> | > | > | > http://tinyurl.com/366a6q
> | > | > | >
> | > | > | >
> | > | > |
> | > | > | And F.A.I.R. is the ultimate source for many of the statistics
> | > presented
> | > | > | in the OP, not CNN, as Nurse Moppet seems to intimate. In fact
> all
> | > the
> | > | > | sources above which seem to be attributed to CNN are from a
> couple
> | > of
> | > | > | episodes of 'Lou Dobbs Tonight' and all seem to be unsupported
> | > | > | pronouncements by F.A.I.R. or similar organizations. I'm not
> going
> | > to
> | > | > | read every transcript to verify; but the few I clicked and
> searched
> | > | > | support that, to wit:
> | > | > |
> | > | > | "The Federation for American Immigration Reform says taxpayers
> spend
> | > $12
> | > | > | billion a year on primary and secondary school education for
> | > children
> | > | > | here illegally. Another $17 billion for the American-born
> children
> | > of
> | > | > | illegal aliens, known as anchor babies."
> | > | > |
> | > | > | <http://www.mediamouse.org/resources/right.php?orgId=7>
> | > | > | "The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) was
> founded
> | > in
> | > | > | 1978 by John Tanton of Petoskey, Michigan. FAIR is one of the
> | > | > | best-financed and most active anti-immigration groups and is
> part
> of
> | > a
> | > | > | network of anti-immigration groups associated with Tanton
> (source).
> | > | > | FAIR's stated purpose is to "end illegal immigration" and "to
> set
> | > legal
> | > | > | immigration at the lowest feasible levels consistent with the
> | > | > | demographic, economic, social, and environmental realities."
> While
> | > FAIR
> | > | > | claims it is not xenophobic or racist and has denounced white
> | > | > | supremacists publicly, throughout its history it has had
> connections
> | > to
> | > | > | white supremacists, especially. Even more disturbing, FAIR
> accepted
> | > $1.2
> | > | > | million from the Pioneer Fund during the years 1985 to 1994,
> despite
> | > the
> | > | > | Pioneer Fund being described by eugenics expert Barry Mehler as
> a
> | > | > | "neo-Nazi organization, tied to the Nazi eugenics program in the
> | > 1930s,
> | > | > | that has never wavered in its commitment to eugenics and ideas
> of
> | > human
> | > | > | and racial inferiority and superiority (source)." When this link
> was
> | > | > | exposed in 1988, Tanton said that he knew nothing of the Pioneer
> | > Fund's
> | > | > | history and continued to accept funding from them until 1994. A
> | > series
> | > | > | of memos from the 1980s outline Tanton's political strategy of
> | > taking
> | > on
> | > | > | not just "lllegal" but legal immigration, as well revealing
> Tanton's
> | > use
> | > | > | of derogatory terminology to describe Latinos."
> | > | > |
> | > | > | Nice(?) try, Muppet. It's funny how those on your side of the
> swamp
> | > | > | criticize CNN at every turn, but use them to supposedly give an
> aura
> | > of
> | > | > | legitimacy to your hate-filled screeds.
> | > | > |
> | > | > | jak
> | > | >
> | > | > Post one example where I have critized CNN. That is an awful broad
> | > brush
> | > | > you
> | > | > are painting with. OTOH I do not support any of President Bush's
> | > | > immigration
> | > | > plans.
> | > | >
> | > |
> | > | There is a tiny bit here with which to agree. Not every single
> | > conservative,
> | > | self-styled or rather obvious, is always critical of CNN. But, the
> vast
> | > | majority I've run across are.
> | > |
> | > | Two questions are left to answer, especially considering all that
> money
> | > | we've spent on anchor babies. That one makes me wonder just when we
> are
> | > | gonna arrest Arlen Specter and at least two other members of
> Congress,
> | > | seeing as how they ARE anchor babies.
> | >
> | > Were the parents "illegal" aliens?
> | >
> |
> | Pray tell, how else WOULD they have become anchor babies?
> |
> | > |
> | > | The second question deals with value and freely concedes there are
> some
> | > | fairly nefarious bastards crossing that border (and the other border
> | > too,
> | > | not to forget virtually every other international port into the USA,
> | > though
> | > | we seem to focus mainly on the Mexican border). All those nefarious
> | > bastards
> | > | share a major connection with our homegrown nefarious bastards in
> that
> | > they
> | > | are, not to put too fine a point on it, nefarious bastards.
> | > |
> | > | However, that does not constitute all the traffic across that, or
> any
> | > other,
> | > | border. I personally know, and I'll wager most in here do as well,
> | > though
> | > | they may not wish to admit it, or even know that they know it,
> several
> | > | illegals who have been here for years, work jobs, own homes, pay
> taxes
> | > and
> | > | in many cases own businesses and make a payroll, offering up jobs to
> any
> | > and
> | > | all who apply and qualify, including native-born US citizens.
> | > |
> | > | That last category would be mostly a thing of the past if a certain
> | > | Coloradan gets his way, but for now, born here means citizen here,
> | > UNLESS
> | > it
> | > | can be demonstrated that both parents are foreign born, not here
> legally
> | > and
> | > | have no intention to make the US their permanent home.
> | >
> | > IMHO Babies of illegals should not be given citizenship.
> | >
> |
> | So, you agree with current US immigration law, which states the same
> thing.
> | Regardless of what that Colorado moron says, regardless of the endless
> tripe
> | of your average ranch-stash skinhead, regardless of the email hoaxes to
> the
> | contrary, the children of illegals are NOT automatically US citizens
> NOW!
> |
> | > |
> | > | Pesky little thing called immigration law... it already spells out
> what
> | > can
> | > | and can not happen regarding birth, but sycophants have never let
> the
> | > truth
> | > | get in the way of a good, scary rant.
> | > |
> | > | But, here's the question. Does one seriously consider it to be a
> good
> | > thing
> | > | to blow up and kick to the curb several decades of work, tax paying
> and
> | > a
> | > | generally productive life here, taking with it the jobs of US native
> | > borns,
> | > | simply to prove a point?
> | >
> | > They can't take jobs back across the border.
> | >
> |
> | Sigh. If they close down a viable business... the jobs held by that
> | business' employees are most assuredly taken. Is that really all that
> hard
> | to understand?
>
> Not at all. If the business is shut down the next business will not hire
> illegal aliens.
>

> |
> | The IRS already closes down businesses over tax issues and costs folks
> | who've done nothing wrong at all their jobs. RICCO statutes deprived a
> | Middle Tennessee woman of her car (not her drug dealer husband's car)
> which
> | she used to get to her job because he got popped... and if memory
> serves,
> he
> | wasn't even using her car.
>
> That's the risk of having a DRUG DEALING HUSBAND!
>

> |
> | Are you serious here? You REALLY want to give more IRS and RICCO esque
> | powers to the feral government, to use Joseph Crowe's moniker?
> |
> | Here's a little hint. In both those scenarios, all it takes is the
> | accusation to retrieve your property and dispose of it. It'll be
> entirely
> up
> | to you to figure out how to get it back.
>
> That's the risk you take for being a drug dealer or someone that hires
> illegals.
>

> |
> | > |
> | > | Just as sorry as I can be, but on this point, the Shrub has it
> exactly
> | > | right. If you've been here a good while, if you've paid your way, if
> | > you've
> | > | been a productive member of this society, a break is what you
> deserve...
> | > not
> | > | a bus ride back to wherever.
> | > |
> | > | You especially do not deserve that bus ride when all across the
> country,
> | > ICE
> | > | personnel prove they have no clue on reasonable police practices or
> even
> | > the
> | > | ability to recognize an illegal alien from a legal resident OR
> | > native-born
> | > | US citizen.
> | >
> | > I disagree. They broke the law when they crossed the border. Should an
> | > escaped felon be set free because he avoided capture, paid his way
> and
> | > had
> | > been a productive member of society?
> | >
> |
> | Hardly apples to apples, but there have been such cases over the years
> and
> | yes, in some cases, that productive life has been taken into at least
> some
> | account.
> |
> | Still, the point is simple. If they are working, paying taxes, paying
> their
> | own way, in what possible way have you personally been harmed by the
> mere
> | fact that they're illegals?
>
> They broke the law.
>
> Precisely how have they been a burden on you,
>
> Yes through higher taxes.
>
> | and if they owned a business how will the loss of a job to your fellow
> | citizens actually help you?
>
> More jobs for legal citizens.
>

> |
> | >
> | > |
> | > | This is about the only point El Shrubo has it right on. After all,
> he
> | > just
> | > | vetoed a bill to spend a wad of cash on a thing of some
> importance...
> | > water
> | > | resource development, reclamation of Florida's swampland (a thing
> his
> | > own
> | > | goddamned brother helped move forward after decades of draining the
> | > | Everglades) and got it thrown back in his face with an impressive
> veto.
> | >
> | > What other porkbarrel projects had been attatched to the bill?
> | >
> |
> | Jesus H Christ on a soda cracker. It is a water resource development
> bill,
> | designed to throw a bone or two at a pre-existing backlog of projects
> that
> | have been desperately needed for a goodly number of years. If Congress
> | passed it, there's bound to be pork, but please. Spare me that George
> Bush
> | is worried about pork when you take a look at the final bill for his
> little
> | foray into Iraq on now proven dubious evidence, at best, if not outright
> | manufactured lies.
>
> Politicians tack on their porkbarrel to every bill.
>

> |
> | He even flew smack into the face of members of his own party in Florida
> with
> | the part about Everglades reclammation. Odd as it may sound, never mind
> that
> | the root word of conservative is conserve, Florida republicans saw, in
> | spades, the folly of decades of draining that swamp to make arable and
> | buildable land and have been on the bandwagon to restore it for years. I
> | guess he didn't want the money spent on the Gulf Coast because the
> vultures
> | have not quite finished grabbing up all the land at bargain prices to
> build
> | uber-expensive hidey holes for his buddies, present and future.
>
> If doesn't take federal money to quit draining the swamp.
>

> |
> | > |
> | > | The reasonable thing to do with regards immigration is to avoid
> blowing
> | > up
> | > | successful people whose only crime is to not have "ze proper
> papers,"
> | > avoid
> | > | damage to the US economy inland from overclosing that border and fix
> | > | internal security measures where some numbnutz can't go to work for,
> | > say,
> | > an
> | > | airport contractor, and collect a "security badge" from a box with a
> | > bunch
> | > | of already well-used "security badges," hoping to find one with a
> | > picture
> | > | that already looks a little like him or her.
> | >
> | > The reasonable thing to do is to stiffly fine the employer, confiscate
> the
> | > alien's assets and ship the back over the border.
> | >
> |
> | Lord, love a duck! I've been hearing this for decades. Every time the
> debate
> | rises up, it's fine the employers, and they do for a short while. Then,
> it
> | becomes clear they're gonna have to pay real wages for those jobs and do
> | honest accounting, and the reforms just slowly slip away.
> |
> | Then it's back to paying half wages for illegals, collecting the taxes
> but
> | somehow forgetting to forward them on to Uncle Sugar.
> |
> | Are some of the illegals criminals? Absolutely no doubt about that at
> all.
> | Arrest 'em. Deport 'em and be done with it.
> |
> | Or is it some desire to waste law enforcement time on specious
> immigration
> | issues so they don't have time for the homegrown crooks?
> |
> | There are days when I truly do wish the Indians (Native Americans, if
> you
> | prefer, though they mostly all immigrated from elsewhere too) had been
> able
> | to implement the same immigration policy some seem to think we so
> | desperately need now. We'd likely be having this conversation with at
> least
> | one of us speaking in a second language now.
>
> My ancestors agree.
>