"David Moffitt"
stompingweasels.org> wrote in message
news:13j7h6l7628mfc6@corp.supernews.com...>
> "Olin"
comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:aOCdnWk0vZgbK67anZ2dnUVZ_vKunZ2d@comcast.com...
> |
> | "David Moffitt" stompingweasels.org> wrote in message
> | news:13j6j77cqfcgja5@corp.supernews.com...
> | >
> | > "jakdedert" bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> | > news:DqGYi.29517$N7.6346@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
> | > | Boston Blackie (You've got to be freakin' kidding me?) wrote:
> | > | > On 2007-11-08 08:39:34 -0600, "David Moffitt" said:
> | > | >
> | > | >> 14 Reasons to Deport Illegal Aliens...
> | > | >>
> | > | >> 1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal
> aliens
> | > each
> | > | >> year. http://tinyurl.com/zob77
> | > | >
> | > | > FAIR rejects criticism that it is racist, xenophobic, and
> | > | > anti-immigrant. Such criticisms are leveled not only by liberal
> and
> | > | > pro-immigrant groups, but also by many conservatives and such
> | > | > business-oriented publications as the Wall Street Journal. (9)
> | > According
> | > | > to FAIR, "We have a clear and consistent record of discussing
> | > | > immigration policy and how it should be reformed to serve the
> | > interests
> | > | > of this nation. FAIR has very clearly and consistently drawn the
> | > | > distinction between immigration policy and immigrants." With
> respect
> | > to
> | > | > charges that the immigration policies it advocates and its
> educational
> | > | > activities are racist, FAIR responds: "There are always people who
> | > | > support the right idea for the wrong reasons--but that doesn't
> make
> | > the
> | > | > idea itself wrong. None of this changes the fact that bringing a
> | > million
> | > | > additional people from other countries into this one is disruptive
> to
> | > | > our economy, our society, and our environment. We condemn racism.
> But
> | > we
> | > | > also condemn the use of terms such as 'anti-immigrant,' 'racist,'
> or
> | > | > 'xenophobe' as they are used to try to stifle open, honest
> discussion
> | > of
> | > | > how our immigration policy is impacting the country."
> | > | >
> | > | > Source: http://tinyurl.com/33lduj
> | > | >
> | > | > (9) "Borderline Republicans," Wall Street Journal, June 17, 2004.
> | > | > http://tinyurl.com/366a6q
> | > | >
> | > | >
> | > |
> | > | And F.A.I.R. is the ultimate source for many of the statistics
> presented
> | > | in the OP, not CNN, as Nurse Moppet seems to intimate. In fact all
> the
> | > | sources above which seem to be attributed to CNN are from a couple
> of
> | > | episodes of 'Lou Dobbs Tonight' and all seem to be unsupported
> | > | pronouncements by F.A.I.R. or similar organizations. I'm not going
> to
> | > | read every transcript to verify; but the few I clicked and searched
> | > | support that, to wit:
> | > |
> | > | "The Federation for American Immigration Reform says taxpayers spend
> $12
> | > | billion a year on primary and secondary school education for
> children
> | > | here illegally. Another $17 billion for the American-born children
> of
> | > | illegal aliens, known as anchor babies."
> | > |
> | > | <http://www.mediamouse.org/resources/right.php?orgId=7>
> | > | "The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) was founded
> in
> | > | 1978 by John Tanton of Petoskey, Michigan. FAIR is one of the
> | > | best-financed and most active anti-immigration groups and is part of
> a
> | > | network of anti-immigration groups associated with Tanton (source).
> | > | FAIR's stated purpose is to "end illegal immigration" and "to set
> legal
> | > | immigration at the lowest feasible levels consistent with the
> | > | demographic, economic, social, and environmental realities." While
> FAIR
> | > | claims it is not xenophobic or racist and has denounced white
> | > | supremacists publicly, throughout its history it has had connections
> to
> | > | white supremacists, especially. Even more disturbing, FAIR accepted
> $1.2
> | > | million from the Pioneer Fund during the years 1985 to 1994, despite
> the
> | > | Pioneer Fund being described by eugenics expert Barry Mehler as a
> | > | "neo-Nazi organization, tied to the Nazi eugenics program in the
> 1930s,
> | > | that has never wavered in its commitment to eugenics and ideas of
> human
> | > | and racial inferiority and superiority (source)." When this link was
> | > | exposed in 1988, Tanton said that he knew nothing of the Pioneer
> Fund's
> | > | history and continued to accept funding from them until 1994. A
> series
> | > | of memos from the 1980s outline Tanton's political strategy of
> taking
> on
> | > | not just "lllegal" but legal immigration, as well revealing Tanton's
> use
> | > | of derogatory terminology to describe Latinos."
> | > |
> | > | Nice(?) try, Muppet. It's funny how those on your side of the swamp
> | > | criticize CNN at every turn, but use them to supposedly give an aura
> of
> | > | legitimacy to your hate-filled screeds.
> | > |
> | > | jak
> | >
> | > Post one example where I have critized CNN. That is an awful broad
> brush
> | > you
> | > are painting with. OTOH I do not support any of President Bush's
> | > immigration
> | > plans.
> | >
> |
> | There is a tiny bit here with which to agree. Not every single
> conservative,
> | self-styled or rather obvious, is always critical of CNN. But, the vast
> | majority I've run across are.
> |
> | Two questions are left to answer, especially considering all that money
> | we've spent on anchor babies. That one makes me wonder just when we are
> | gonna arrest Arlen Specter and at least two other members of Congress,
> | seeing as how they ARE anchor babies.
>
> Were the parents "illegal" aliens?
>
Pray tell, how else WOULD they have become anchor babies?
> |
> | The second question deals with value and freely concedes there are some
> | fairly nefarious bastards crossing that border (and the other border
> too,
> | not to forget virtually every other international port into the USA,
> though
> | we seem to focus mainly on the Mexican border). All those nefarious
> bastards
> | share a major connection with our homegrown nefarious bastards in that
> they
> | are, not to put too fine a point on it, nefarious bastards.
> |
> | However, that does not constitute all the traffic across that, or any
> other,
> | border. I personally know, and I'll wager most in here do as well,
> though
> | they may not wish to admit it, or even know that they know it, several
> | illegals who have been here for years, work jobs, own homes, pay taxes
> and
> | in many cases own businesses and make a payroll, offering up jobs to any
> and
> | all who apply and qualify, including native-born US citizens.
> |
> | That last category would be mostly a thing of the past if a certain
> | Coloradan gets his way, but for now, born here means citizen here,
> UNLESS
> it
> | can be demonstrated that both parents are foreign born, not here legally
> and
> | have no intention to make the US their permanent home.
>
> IMHO Babies of illegals should not be given citizenship.
>
So, you agree with current US immigration law, which states the same thing.
Regardless of what that Colorado moron says, regardless of the endless tripe
of your average ranch-stash skinhead, regardless of the email hoaxes to the
contrary, the children of illegals are NOT automatically US citizens NOW!
> |
> | Pesky little thing called immigration law... it already spells out what
> can
> | and can not happen regarding birth, but sycophants have never let the
> truth
> | get in the way of a good, scary rant.
> |
> | But, here's the question. Does one seriously consider it to be a good
> thing
> | to blow up and kick to the curb several decades of work, tax paying and
> a
> | generally productive life here, taking with it the jobs of US native
> borns,
> | simply to prove a point?
>
> They can't take jobs back across the border.
>
Sigh. If they close down a viable business... the jobs held by that
business' employees are most assuredly taken. Is that really all that hard
to understand?
The IRS already closes down businesses over tax issues and costs folks
who've done nothing wrong at all their jobs. RICCO statutes deprived a
Middle Tennessee woman of her car (not her drug dealer husband's car) which
she used to get to her job because he got popped... and if memory serves, he
wasn't even using her car.
Are you serious here? You REALLY want to give more IRS and RICCO esque
powers to the feral government, to use Joseph Crowe's moniker?
Here's a little hint. In both those scenarios, all it takes is the
accusation to retrieve your property and dispose of it. It'll be entirely up
to you to figure out how to get it back.
> |
> | Just as sorry as I can be, but on this point, the Shrub has it exactly
> | right. If you've been here a good while, if you've paid your way, if
> you've
> | been a productive member of this society, a break is what you deserve...
> not
> | a bus ride back to wherever.
> |
> | You especially do not deserve that bus ride when all across the country,
> ICE
> | personnel prove they have no clue on reasonable police practices or even
> the
> | ability to recognize an illegal alien from a legal resident OR
> native-born
> | US citizen.
>
> I disagree. They broke the law when they crossed the border. Should an
> escaped felon be set free because he avoided capture, paid his way and
> had
> been a productive member of society?
>
Hardly apples to apples, but there have been such cases over the years and
yes, in some cases, that productive life has been taken into at least some
account.
Still, the point is simple. If they are working, paying taxes, paying their
own way, in what possible way have you personally been harmed by the mere
fact that they're illegals? Precisely how have they been a burden on you,
and if they owned a business how will the loss of a job to your fellow
citizens actually help you?
>
> |
> | This is about the only point El Shrubo has it right on. After all, he
> just
> | vetoed a bill to spend a wad of cash on a thing of some importance...
> water
> | resource development, reclamation of Florida's swampland (a thing his
> own
> | goddamned brother helped move forward after decades of draining the
> | Everglades) and got it thrown back in his face with an impressive veto.
>
> What other porkbarrel projects had been attatched to the bill?
>
Jesus H Christ on a soda cracker. It is a water resource development bill,
designed to throw a bone or two at a pre-existing backlog of projects that
have been desperately needed for a goodly number of years. If Congress
passed it, there's bound to be pork, but please. Spare me that George Bush
is worried about pork when you take a look at the final bill for his little
foray into Iraq on now proven dubious evidence, at best, if not outright
manufactured lies.
He even flew smack into the face of members of his own party in Florida with
the part about Everglades reclammation. Odd as it may sound, never mind that
the root word of conservative is conserve, Florida republicans saw, in
spades, the folly of decades of draining that swamp to make arable and
buildable land and have been on the bandwagon to restore it for years. I
guess he didn't want the money spent on the Gulf Coast because the vultures
have not quite finished grabbing up all the land at bargain prices to build
uber-expensive hidey holes for his buddies, present and future.
> |
> | The reasonable thing to do with regards immigration is to avoid blowing
> up
> | successful people whose only crime is to not have "ze proper papers,"
> avoid
> | damage to the US economy inland from overclosing that border and fix
> | internal security measures where some numbnutz can't go to work for,
> say,
> an
> | airport contractor, and collect a "security badge" from a box with a
> bunch
> | of already well-used "security badges," hoping to find one with a
> picture
> | that already looks a little like him or her.
>
> The reasonable thing to do is to stiffly fine the employer, confiscate the
> alien's assets and ship the back over the border.
>
Lord, love a duck! I've been hearing this for decades. Every time the debate
rises up, it's fine the employers, and they do for a short while. Then, it
becomes clear they're gonna have to pay real wages for those jobs and do
honest accounting, and the reforms just slowly slip away.
Then it's back to paying half wages for illegals, collecting the taxes but
somehow forgetting to forward them on to Uncle Sugar.
Are some of the illegals criminals? Absolutely no doubt about that at all.
Arrest 'em. Deport 'em and be done with it.
Or is it some desire to waste law enforcement time on specious immigration
issues so they don't have time for the homegrown crooks?
There are days when I truly do wish the Indians (Native Americans, if you
prefer, though they mostly all immigrated from elsewhere too) had been able
to implement the same immigration policy some seem to think we so
desperately need now. We'd likely be having this conversation with at least
one of us speaking in a second language now.
