Hi folks,

I've been approached by the Open Invention Network[1]. They're asking
if Debian would like to join as an organisation to "protect our work
and support open access to intellectual property". I'm not sure either
way myself, so I thought I'd ask for comments here. Any thoughts?

[1] http://www.openinventionnetwork.com/

--
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK. steve@einval.com
< sladen> I actually stayed in a hotel and arrived to find a post-it
note stuck to the mini-bar saying "Paul: This fridge and
fittings are the correct way around and do not need altering"

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Hi Steve,

thanks for bringing this up on -project.

On Thursday 03 July 2008 00:59, Steve McIntyre wrote:

Well, for one, "intellectual property" is a myth, that needs to die. IMNSHO
anyway. You cannot own an idea.

Secondly, they also seem to think patents are something positive
(http://www.openinventionnetwork.com/patents.php), the usual "patents promote
innovation" bullshit. Nowadays, patents block innovation, a statement which
for example was shared by Ciscos main patent lawyer (!) in an 2006 (?)
interview with C'T magazine from heise. He (who makes his living on this)
stated that Cisco had more costs than benefits from dealing with patents. And
Cisco is a multi-billion dollar company, which can afford patents. Many small
businesses cant... I guess you know the topic and I cant stop here.

Holger Levsen layer-acht.org> writes:

You just got through pointing out that Open Invention Network *is*
Ketchum Inc. Is there some other organisation that you would suggest
as being much more credible?

--
\ “Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have |
`\ others.” —Groucho Marx |
_o__) |
Ben Finney

Hi,

On Thursday 03 July 2008 10:28, Ben Finney wrote:

Unfortunatly not. I was just pointed this (me first dismissing Open Invention
Network and then suggesting them...) out in private and currently I'm
honestly confused.

:-/

regards,
Holger

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Hi,

On Thursday 03 July 2008 10:28, Ben Finney wrote:

on a second thought, I basically only brought up, that the domain was
registered by Ketchum Inc., which is a PR company. So one could maybe say
they (OIN) just were unfortunate or whatever...

The EFF for example, see http://w2.eff.org/patent/ or something like them.

I dont think Debian, as a worldwide non-profit project, should join those
playing within the system of (software) patents which only exists in some
legislations anyway, but rather take a more fundamental stand, that
(software) patents are fundamentally wrong, and work together with those,
that support this way.

regards,
Holger

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Steve McIntyre debian.org> writes:

It would be best to clarify what they mean. As has been pointed out
many times, "intellectual property" is a nonsense term, with no clear
referent. Beginning a discussion that uses that term is just begging
for everyone involved to understand incompatible things from the same
terms.

So far, it seems their entire site could benefit from

s/intellectual property/patent/

but you should confirm that with them, and request that if patents are
all they're actually talking about, to please use only that term to
refer to that area of law.

If they want a meaningful discussion, it's best to find out exactly
what things they're offering to "protect", before further discussion.

* Steve McIntyre:

I guess they aren't aware that Debian doesn't hold any assests,
intellectual property or otherwise. Perhaps you could try to clarify
that. I'm pretty sure that afterwards, they will withdraw their offer
to join.

On Sun, 2008-07-06 at 23:54 +0200, Florian Weimer wrote:

Shouldn't they approach SPI instead?

--
Paul Johnson
baloo@ursine.ca

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* Paul Johnson:

SPI doesn't hold that many assets, either. 8-)