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Author: David PaleinoDavid Paleino Date: Sep 17, 2008 11:50
Inizio messsaggio inviato:
Data: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 10:42:08 +0200
Da: Sven Luther
A: David Paleino gmail.com>
Cc: John Goerzen complete.org>, debian-project@lists.debian.org
Oggetto: Re: Debian and non-free
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Author: Raphael HertzogRaphael Hertzog Date: Sep 18, 2008 00:30
I was frightened by your message until I realized that it was not your
message but one of Sven… please don't forward messages that you don't
endorse (in particular when it contains wrong claims).
> debian-multimedia.org is not maintained by debian, it is for patent
> encumbered stuff, liable of a lawsuite or something such. It was done by
> an ex-DD who left debian in discontent.
That's simply wrong. Christian Marillat is still DD:
$ finger marillat@ db.debian.org
[ db.debian.org]
uid=marillat,ou=users,dc=debian,dc=org
First name: Christian
Last name: Marillat
Email: Christian Marillat debian.org>
URL: http://www.debian-multimedia.org/
Fingerprint: 1D7F C53F 80F8 52C1 88F4 ED0B 07DC 563D 1F41 B907
Key block: finger marillat/key@db.debian.org
Cheers,
--
Raphaël Hertzog
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Author: David PaleinoDavid Paleino Date: Sep 18, 2008 00:40
On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 09:22:03 +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> I was frightened by your message until I realized that it was not your
> message but one of Sven… please don't forward messages that you don't
> endorse (in particular when it contains wrong claims).
Ok, sorry for that :)
However, I still believe that censorship is a BadThing©, and everyone should be
given the chance to speak. But, well, I don't know what happened with Sven...
and I don't even want to touch the topic.
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Author: Joey SchulzeJoey Schulze Date: Sep 18, 2008 00:50
David Paleino wrote:
>> I was frightened by your message until I realized that it was not your
>> message but one of Sven??? please don't forward messages that you don't
>> endorse (in particular when it contains wrong claims).
>
> Ok, sorry for that :)
> However, I still believe that censorship is a BadThing©, and everyone should be
> given the chance to speak. But, well, I don't know what happened with Sven....
> and I don't even want to touch the topic.
It's not censorship (that's only Sven Luthers view that he seems to
state in nearly every mail he sends to others), its a ban for well
published reasons. If you are interested in this topic, please read
the relevant mails in the mailing list archives, mails mostly by Sven
Luther so you are able to evaluate his current mails, and most
importantly the statements by the listmaster and dam teams. Solely
believing Sven Luthers rationale is like walking on very very thin
ice.
Unless you do know the background, please don't emit statements like the one above.
Regards,
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Author: David PaleinoDavid Paleino Date: Sep 18, 2008 01:20
On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 09:59:54 +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> The listmaster said, when i asked them to lift the ban on debian-vote
> for the DPL electoral campaign, arguing that the electoral campaign is
> an exercice in democracy, and thus anyone should be allowed to ask the
> candidates questions. To this the listmaster replied :
>
> In continuation of the policy which we outlined in the original ban,
> we invite your posts only if sent by proxy using Debian Developer who
> is willing to vouch for the appropriateness of the message relayed.
> Thomas, Don, Cord
> on behalf of the listmaster team
>
> [..]
>
> Please forward this verbatim, and don't try editing out (see definition
> of censorship) part of what i have to say, as you did previously.
I'm not a DD, so please don't ask me to bounce your mails.
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Author: cobacocobaco Date: Sep 19, 2008 06:30
On Thursday 2008-09-18, Joey Schulze wrote:
> David Paleino wrote:
>> However, I still believe that censorship is a BadThing©, and everyone
>> should be given the chance to speak. But, well, I don't know what
>> happened with Sven.... and I don't even want to touch the topic.
>
> It's not censorship
Censorship is nothing more or less then banning/prohibiting certain speach
in a certain forum
-> that's clearly the case.
> (that's only Sven Luthers view that he seems to state in nearly every mail
> he sends to others),
>
> its a ban for well published reasons.
so no it's not just Sven Luther's view that he's being censored
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Date: Sep 19, 2008 19:20
cobaco writes:
> Censorship is nothing more or less then banning/prohibiting certain
> speach in a certain forum
No. Censorship is banning/prohibiting certain speech in *any and all*
public forums. Generally, only a state has that power.
The crucial difference is that, in this case, only *specific* forums
are denied for the speech in question. The ban does not extend further
than those specific forums, hence it is not censorship.
--
\ “The man who is denied the opportunity of taking decisions of |
`\ importance begins to regard as important the decisions he is |
_o__) allowed to take.” —C. Northcote Parkinson |
Ben Finney
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Author: MJ RayMJ Ray Date: Sep 22, 2008 03:00
Ben Finney wrote:
> No. Censorship is banning/prohibiting certain speech in *any and all*
> public forums. Generally, only a state has that power.
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Author: cobacocobaco Date: Sep 22, 2008 03:00
On Saturday 2008-09-20, Ben Finney wrote:
> cobaco writes:
>> Censorship is nothing more or less then banning/prohibiting certain
>> speach in a certain forum
>
> No. Censorship is banning/prohibiting certain speech in *any and all*
> public forums. Generally, only a state has that power.
that's political censorship, as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship
details there's a lot more then just that covered by the term.
As an aside it's always been impossible to prohibit speech in '*any and all*
public forums'. A government can get close, but at best they can make it
livetreathingly dangerous.
> The crucial difference is that, in this case, only *specific* forums
> are denied for the speech in question. The ban does not extend further
> than those specific forums, hence it is not censorship.
specifically from the section on 'commercial censorship' (though that term
obviously doesn't really fit debian):
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