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Author: Robert MillanRobert Millan Date: Aug 3, 2008 05:30
[ adding debian-project ]
On Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 01:53:54PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 08:28:19AM -0300, Ben Armstrong wrote:
>>
>> Earliest Eee models fully supported in Lenny
>>
>> Lenny will release with the atl2 ethernet driver and the non-free
>> madwifi-source now works with the earliest Eee models as well,
>
> Hi Ben
>
> Lenny is Debian. non-free is not part of Debian. Check the Social Contract.
I wonder what is it that we do wrong to spread this confusion so much that it
affects even Debian developers themselves.
What is this to blame? Would it be the FTP archive layout? Perhaps having an
unified BTS?
I'd be very interested in finding an answer to that question, and proposing a
reform if we find something conclussive.
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Author: Ben ArmstrongBen Armstrong Date: Aug 3, 2008 06:00
On Sun, 3 Aug 2008 14:17:46 +0200
Robert Millan aybabtu.com> wrote:> I wonder what is it that we do wrong to spread this confusion so much that it
> affects even Debian developers themselves.
>
> What is this to blame? Would it be the FTP archive layout? Perhaps having an
> unified BTS?
>
> I'd be very interested in finding an answer to that question, and proposing a
> reform if we find something conclussive.
Before this thread goes much further, examine the context, please.
Read the whole thing and then tell me I am confused:
Earliest Eee models fully supported in Lenny
Lenny will release with the atl2 ethernet driver and the non-free
madwifi-source now works with the earliest Eee models as well, so our
patched version is no longer needed. This means Lenny will work with
all of the earliest models of the Eee PC: 701 (2G and 4G surf, 4G,
8G) and 900!
Free drivers
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Author: Giacomo A. CatenazziGiacomo A. Catenazzi Date: Aug 4, 2008 06:30
Robert Millan wrote:
> [ adding debian-project ]
>
> On Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 01:53:54PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
>> On Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 08:28:19AM -0300, Ben Armstrong wrote:
>>> Earliest Eee models fully supported in Lenny
>>>
>>> Lenny will release with the atl2 ethernet driver and the non-free
>>> madwifi-source now works with the earliest Eee models as well,
>> Hi Ben
>>
>> Lenny is Debian. non-free is not part of Debian. Check the Social Contract.
>
> I wonder what is it that we do wrong to spread this confusion so much that it
> affects even Debian developers themselves.
>
> What is this to blame? Would it be the FTP archive layout? Perhaps having an
> unified BTS?
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Author: Robert MillanRobert Millan Date: Aug 4, 2008 11:40
On Mon, Aug 04, 2008 at 03:18:24PM +0200, Giacomo A. Catenazzi wrote:
> : Origin: Debian
> : Label: Debian
> : Suite: testing
> : Codename: lenny
> : Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 08:39:59 UTC
> : Architectures: alpha amd64 arm armel hppa i386 ia64 mips mipsel
> powerpc s390 sparc
> : Components: main contrib non-free
> : Description: Debian x.y Testing distribution - Not Released
>
> So lenny is made from main (Debian), contrib and non-free.
Therefore Lenny is not Debian, but a superset of it?
This is troubling. Do you have any suggestions on how to address this?
--
Robert Millan
The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all."
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Author: Julien CristauJulien Cristau Date: Aug 4, 2008 12:00
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 20:36:17 +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
> This is troubling. Do you have any suggestions on how to address this?
Stop trolling about utterly uninteresting details?
HTH,
Julien
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Author: Ben ArmstrongBen Armstrong Date: Aug 4, 2008 12:10
On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 20:36:17 +0200
Robert Millan aybabtu.com> wrote:> Therefore Lenny is not Debian, but a superset of it?
>
> This is troubling. Do you have any suggestions on how to address this?
I have never understood this to be the case. Our codenames refer to
Debian releases. Both non-free and contrib are not in Debian and are
not part of the release. What I've always understood is that the
reason contrib and non-free are labelled 'lenny' is because they are
supposed to work with that release. I can't see that there's
anything troubling about this at all. In fact, I always thought this
was self-evident. Is there really something to be worried over here?
Ben
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Author: Robert MillanRobert Millan Date: Aug 4, 2008 12:10
On Mon, Aug 04, 2008 at 08:46:36PM +0200, Julien Cristau wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 20:36:17 +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
>
>> This is troubling. Do you have any suggestions on how to address this?
>
> Stop trolling about utterly uninteresting details?
I think it's you who are trolling.
--
Robert Millan
The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all."
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Author: Robert MillanRobert Millan Date: Aug 4, 2008 12:20
On Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 09:51:42AM -0300, Ben Armstrong wrote:
>
> Before this thread goes much further, examine the context, please.
> Read the whole thing and then tell me I am confused:
Hi Ben,
Just to make it clear, please don't take it as if I were recriminating
something to you. My understanding is that this problem is about general
perception and I don't think it's your fault in any way.
> Earliest Eee models fully supported in Lenny
>
> Lenny will release with the atl2 ethernet driver and the non-free
> madwifi-source now works with the earliest Eee models as well,
> [...]
>
> My only error is that when I said "fully supported" I overstated the
> case. Lenny will certainly "work with" all of the earliest models.
I don't have an eeepc myself, but what I gather is that Lenny doesn't fully
support them; it is Lenny + non-free which does (or otherwise you have no
wireless).
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Author: Robert MillanRobert Millan Date: Aug 4, 2008 12:30
On Mon, Aug 04, 2008 at 04:01:50PM -0300, Ben Armstrong wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 20:36:17 +0200
> Robert Millan aybabtu.com> wrote:>> Therefore Lenny is not Debian, but a superset of it?
>>
>> This is troubling. Do you have any suggestions on how to address this?
>
> I have never understood this to be the case. Our codenames refer to
> Debian releases. Both non-free and contrib are not in Debian and are
> not part of the release. What I've always understood is that the
> reason contrib and non-free are labelled 'lenny' is because they are
> supposed to work with that release. I can't see that there's
> anything troubling about this at all. In fact, I always thought this
> was self-evident. Is there really something to be worried over here?
Well, I really don't know. My concern right now is that there's a widespread
confusion, but I have no idea where it originates or what we can do to correct
it.
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Author: Giacomo CatenazziGiacomo Catenazzi Date: Aug 4, 2008 12:30
Robert Millan wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 04, 2008 at 03:18:24PM +0200, Giacomo A. Catenazzi wrote:
>> : Origin: Debian
>> : Label: Debian
>> : Suite: testing
>> : Codename: lenny
>> : Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 08:39:59 UTC
>> : Architectures: alpha amd64 arm armel hppa i386 ia64 mips mipsel
>> powerpc s390 sparc
>> : Components: main contrib non-free
>> : Description: Debian x.y Testing distribution - Not Released
>>
>> So lenny is made from main (Debian), contrib and non-free.
>
> Therefore Lenny is not Debian, but a superset of it?
>
> This is troubling. Do you have any suggestions on how to address this?
It is complex :-(
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