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Author: lulu Date: Jul 23, 2007 15:42
Eli Zaretskii さんは書きました:
>> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 21:03:30 +0900
>> From: "lu@luxdo.jp"
>>
>> Today I tried vim 7.1,It have native language menu.
>> Why emacs only have English menu?
>>
>
> Because Emacs is a much more complex program, and therefore adding
> localization support to it is a much harder job. And because no one
> volunteered to do that job.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> help-gnu-emacs mailing list
> help-gnu-emacs@ gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs
>
> I think this is the real reason. ...
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Author: Stefan MonnierStefan Monnier Date: Jul 23, 2007 20:45
>>> Today I tried vim 7.1,It have native language menu.
>>> Why emacs only have English menu?
Because nobody has gone through the trouble of adding localization yet.
As for why, I would guess it's a mix of difficulty (need someone who
understand enough of Emacs and of localization to deal with it both at the
C and the Lisp level), together with the fact that it's bound to stay
partial:
- many elements are sufficiently dynamic that it's going to be
difficult to add support to translate them.
- an important side of Emacs is that it exposes a lot of its internals: many
important commands are reached via M-x where the term you enter is the
name of a function (i.e. not quite a string), and all the online help
refers to those things as well.
Still, it's quite doable. The only difficulty is to have the courage to
start with something small and convince other people that it's worthwhile to
go down that road.
Stefan
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Author: Pascal BourguignonPascal Bourguignon Date: Jul 24, 2007 04:29
Stefan Monnier writes:
>>>> Today I tried vim 7.1,It have native language menu.
>>>> Why emacs only have English menu?
>
> Because nobody has gone through the trouble of adding localization yet.
> As for why, I would guess it's...
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Author: Jean-Christophe HelaryJean-Christophe Helary Date: Jul 24, 2007 05:18
On 24 juil. 07, at 20:29, Pascal Bourguignon wrote:
> Of course, as anybody I'd prefer to use software that speaks to me in
> a language I understand, but if the language of the author of the
> software is in the list of languages I understand, I prefer to use
> that software in the author's language, because it will be clearer and
> much less risky. Also, when software is translated (you can take
> MacOS and MacOSX as very bad examples. I mean the translation is
> almost perfect, but the result is awful), you cannot help the users
> anymore. Pathnames change, program names changes, menu, buttons,
> everything. You can't understand the error message anymore (I have to
> translate them back from my native tongue to English to understand
> them! etc).
You need to use more localized software maybe. You'll notice that
there are plenty of locale based communities that provide support,
tutorials, code etc.
> Of course, we all know that for a corporation market division is very
> good (it allows them to put higher prices in the submarkets). But for
> users these translations is costly in more than one way.
I fail to see the rationale behind this opinion.
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Author: Pascal BourguignonPascal Bourguignon Date: Jul 24, 2007 05:48
Jean-Christophe Helary writes:
> [...]
> That is a possibility but obviously there are much more Japanese or
> French people who use their software now than then.
Yes, applications.
> What good is a software package if it can't be used by linguistically
> challenged people ?
Linguistically challenged people just cannot program.
You cannot translate programming languages. This has been tried
several times, BEFORE the Internet existed (eg BASICOIS, a Basic in
French, there was also a Pascal in French, and I bet a number of
variations in other languages). All these experiment failed, because
programs must be readable to be useful, and French is readably only by
French people. Pascal is readable by all programmers!
Nowadays, with the Internet and the worldwide job market, it's just
impossible to translate a programming language. And this is what emacs is.
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Author: HadronHadron Date: Jul 24, 2007 06:07
Pascal Bourguignon informatimago.com> writes:
> Stefan Monnier writes:
>
>>>>> Today I tried vim 7.1,It have native language menu.
>>>>> Why emacs only have English menu?
>>
>> Because nobody has gone through the trouble...
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Author: HadronHadron Date: Jul 24, 2007 06:10
Pascal Bourguignon informatimago.com> writes:
> Jean-Christophe Helary writes:
>> [...]
>> That is a possibility but obviously there are much more Japanese or
>> French people who use their software now than then.
>
> Yes, applications.
>
>
>> What good is a software package if it can't be used by linguistically
>> challenged people ?
>
> Linguistically challenged people just cannot program.
What has "program" got to do with Emacs, even if you are totally
incorrect in your assumption. I know plenty of top notch programmers who
are unable to master french or german but are happy with their native
english.
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Author: Pascal BourguignonPascal Bourguignon Date: Jul 24, 2007 07:02
Hadron googlemail.com> writes:
> Pascal Bourguignon informatimago.com> writes:
>>> Jean-Christophe Helary writes:
>>> [...]
>>> That is a possibility but obviously there are much more Japanese or
>>> French people who use their software now than then.
>>
>> Yes, applications.
>>
>>
>>> What good is a software package if it can't be used by linguistically
>>> challenged people ?
>>
>> Linguistically challenged people just cannot program.
>
> What has "program" got to do with Emacs, even if you are totally
> incorrect in your assumption.
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Author: Pascal BourguignonPascal Bourguignon Date: Jul 24, 2007 07:09
Hadron googlemail.com> writes:
> Pascal Bourguignon informatimago.com> writes:
>>> Stefan Monnier writes:
>>
>>>>>> Today I tried vim 7.1,It have native language menu.
>>>>>> Why emacs only have English...
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Author: HadronHadron Date: Jul 24, 2007 07:19
Pascal Bourguignon informatimago.com> writes:
>>
>> Aha. OK. You are talking about localised lisp? Maybe I got lost here.
>
> What else? This is what emacs is.
This is not the point. "Localised" can substitute all hard coded "texts"
with a call to a translation routine to provide the localised
translation.
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