|
|
 Up |
|
|
  |
Author: paddy3118paddy3118 Date: Nov 28, 2006 21:59
Jeff Fox wrote:
> Thank goodness Forth culture is nearly the opposite of Python culture;
> freedom vs 'one way', cleverness being bad/good, optimization being
> bad/good, being the OS being bad/good, or the meaning of simple.
>
> At least the two languages are both suppose to be 'fun' for doing
> these opposite things for people with opposite interests.
A better idea of Python culture is "The Zen of Python" which is
accessible from the Python command line:
PythonWin 2.4.2 (#67, Jan 17 2006, 15:36:03) [MSC v.1310 32 bit
(Intel)] on win32.
Portions Copyright 1994-2004 Mark Hammond (mhammond@ skippinet.com.au) -
see 'Help/About PythonWin' for further copyright information. >>> import this
The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters
Beautiful is better than ugly.
Explicit is better than implicit.
Simple is better than complex.
Complex is better than complicated.
Flat is better than nested.
Sparse is better than dense.
Readability...
|
| Show full article (1.57Kb) |
|
| | no comments |
|
|
Author: Jeff FoxJeff Fox Date: Oct 14, 2006 09:19
Thank goodness Forth culture is nearly the opposite of Python culture;
freedom vs 'one way', cleverness being bad/good, optimization being
bad/good, being the OS being bad/good, or the meaning of simple.
At least the two languages are both suppose to be 'fun' for doing
these opposite things for people with opposite interests.
|
| |
|
| | 26 Comments |
|
|
Author: ziggyziggy Date: Nov 6, 2006 16:18
> Thank goodness Forth culture is nearly the opposite of Python culture;
> freedom vs 'one way', cleverness being bad/good, optimization being
> bad/good, being the OS being bad/good, or the meaning of simple.
>
> At least the two languages are both suppose to be 'fun' for doing
> these opposite things for people with opposite interests.
But keep in mind, the are intended for 2 different audiences too.. Both
have their place.
|
| |
| no comments |
|
|
Author: The Beez'The Beez' Date: Nov 7, 2006 07:05
Jeff Fox schreef:
> Thank goodness Forth culture is nearly the opposite of Python culture;
> freedom vs 'one way', cleverness being bad/good, optimization being
> bad/good, being the OS being bad/good, or the meaning of simple.
A language that dictates programmers how to layout their code has a
serious attitude problem IMHO. ;-)
Hans Bezemer
|
| |
| 21 Comments |
|
|
Author: Aleksej SaushevAleksej Saushev Date: Nov 7, 2006 07:56
"The Beez'" bigfoot.com> writes:
> Jeff Fox schreef:
>> Thank goodness Forth culture is nearly the opposite of Python culture;
>> freedom vs 'one way', cleverness being bad/good, optimization being
>> bad/good, being the OS being bad/good, or the meaning of simple.
> A language that dictates programmers how to layout their code has a
> serious attitude problem IMHO. ;-)
Why?
Does it matter that style requirements are posed by language
itself (formally) or by its community (informally)?
|
| |
| 19 Comments |
|
|
Author: Marcel HendrixMarcel Hendrix Date: Nov 7, 2006 09:03
"The Beez'" bigfoot.com> writes Re: Python from a Forth perspective
[..]>> Thank goodness Forth culture is nearly the opposite of Python culture;
>> freedom vs 'one way', cleverness being bad/good, optimization being
>> bad/good, being the OS being bad/good, or the meaning of simple.
> A language that dictates programmers how to layout their code has a
> serious attitude problem IMHO. ;-)
You mean ... like colorforth?
-marcel
|
| |
| no comments |
|
|
Author: John DotyJohn Doty Date: Nov 7, 2006 11:12
Aleksej Saushev wrote:
> "The Beez'" bigfoot.com> writes:
> >> Jeff Fox schreef:
>>> Thank goodness Forth culture is nearly the opposite of Python culture;
>>> freedom vs 'one way', cleverness being bad/good, optimization being
>>> bad/good, being the OS being bad/good, or the meaning of simple.
>
>> A language that dictates programmers how to layout their code has a
>> serious attitude problem IMHO. ;-)
A language can't have an attitude problem, but a programmer can.
>
> Why?
>
> Does it matter that style requirements are posed by language
> itself (formally) or by its community (informally)?
|
| Show full article (1.62Kb) |
| 18 Comments |
|
|
Author: Aleksej SaushevAleksej Saushev Date: Nov 7, 2006 23:39
John Doty whispertel.LoseTheH.net> writes:
> Aleksej Saushev wrote:
>> "The Beez'" bigfoot.com> writes:
>>>>> Jeff Fox schreef:
>>>> Thank goodness Forth culture is nearly the opposite of Python culture;
>>>> freedom vs 'one way', cleverness being bad/good, optimization being
>>>> bad/good, being the OS being bad/good, or the meaning of simple.
>>
>>> A language that dictates programmers how to layout their code has a
>>> serious attitude problem IMHO. ;-)
>
> A language can't have an attitude problem, but a programmer can.
Sorry, that's not my words, there's no disagreement between us.
|
| Show full article (2.14Kb) |
| no comments |
|
|
Author: The Beez'The Beez' Date: Nov 8, 2006 08:04
John Doty wrote:
> Of course, formality inhibits egocentric coding: if your idea of
> "freedom" or "fun" comes from showing off what a clever coder you are,
> you won't like formality. On the other hand, if you prefer to show off
> *real results*, formality is just another useful tool to help you get there.
You must really like assembly, minimal basic and early dialects of
Cobol and Fortran. You always enforce something with a purpose.
Enforcing parenthesis and curly braces are just that: they delimit code
blocks. I wouldn't even object when C enforced:
if (a == 0) { a = 1; }
instead of accepting:
if (a == 0) a =1;
Note that most C compilers even accept something as unreadable like:
if(a==0)a=1;else a=2;
But using indention for delimiting code blocks is asking for trouble.
Indention is for layout, code block delimiters are for delimiting code
blocks. Note that a bad copy paste, a "smart" editor can easily destroy
your entire programming logic, giving rise to subtle, hard to track
bugs. This is unacceptable for any professional programmer.
|
| Show full article (1.80Kb) |
| 16 Comments |
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Andrew HaleyAndrew Haley Date: Nov 8, 2006 08:48
The Beez' bigfoot.com> wrote:> I do support code review and there are many aspects of code review
> (like naming conventions, accepted constructions, etc.) that cannot be
> automated. Indention is a minor issue compared to that. The attitude of
> Python is arrogant; it assumes that a professional cannot be trusted to
> layout his code properly.
Oh, rubbish. It just means you don't have to use so much punctuation.
Occam did much the same thing.
> I get no help from this convention, it only bugs me.
> Give me Forth any time. Horizontal layout for short definitions,
> vertical layout for "long" definitions. I may be the reason I hardly
> ever use Python or Perl. It is the same kind of arrogance I find in
> Pascal or some C warnings. I'm a professional. I know what I'm doing.
> Don't bug me. Fatals are the only error messages I'm interested in.
Oh dear.
Andrew.
|
| |
| no comments |
|
|
|
|
