Forth Links wrote:
> I really really really wish there was some Forth approach to all of
> this. A premade one that is that I could investigate and learn from.
> Web design seems like such an unnecessarily complex jungle. I want to
> be able to understand and have control over what I am doing, but the
> conventional way of doing that (html,xhtml,php,perl,ajax,css,ssi) is
> so unappealing to me. What alternatives are there? I've looked at
> Jeff Fox's and Chuck Moore's webpages and I find them suitable for
> what they are doing but they are not dealing with cgi. I wonder how
> they would go about? Perhaps they'd do it all on their own chips with
> their own software and make a very targeted, efficient, program. But
> if they were forced to use x86 and a linux/unix web host, I wonder how
> they would go about it? Perhaps they simply wouldn't, I don't know.
> I feel like I am missing something. I feel like there must be some
> other way than the conventional way to go about web design.
Web design-- at least good web design-- is as much about knowing what
you want to achieve as it is about technology for implementing it. Lots
of people get bogged down in the technologies and put their focus on
that instead of answering the larger questions that have nothing to do
with technology.
It's no different from people who start writing an application by diving
into coding without some up-front design work and quietly thinking about
the problem.
The reason why most people find web design difficult is that to do it
well requires a number of different skills. Depending on the kind of
site you're talking about, you'll need skills in information
architecture (organizing and processing data, semantics), human factors
(understanding how people navigate and interact with web sites),
presentation (formatting and styling for readability and usability,
color theory), content (in this context, technical writing), programming
(both browser-side and server-side), system administration (maintaining
the site), and probably a few other things as well.
It's a complex jungle, but that's because web design is inherently
complex. It's a mix of a bunch of different skills and disciplines.
It's also something that continues to evolve and that makes it a moving
target.
So here's my advice: You aren't going to start off knowing everything
you need. For that, I suggest taking a very un-Forthlike approach and
*not* doing it all yourself, building everything from scratch. That's a
sure-fire way to overload yourself. But more importantly, it will also
lead to you spending time on technologies instead of things that
ultimately matter more-- like content and understanding your users.
Dive into a pre-existing CMS and learn how it works. And by that I mean
not just how the code works, but the architecture used to store,
present, and organize data. Let the CMS worry about rendering the
XHTML, CSS, and other code. That kind of grunt work is obviously
important, but it's at such a low level that it's a big distraction from
the larger objective. Think more about the abstractions the CMS
provides, and learn how to use them. Push the limits of the system and
then try another.
Lather, rinse, repeat. Over time, you'll see the larger patterns that
define good web design. And then, you'll know where to focus your
attention for the goals you're trying to achieve.
> Does anyone know of any Forth or just otherwise non-mainstream,
> alternative, or simplified approach to learning/creating internactive
> web pages?
Don't waste your time there.
