gforth webserver, why isn't forth used all over ecommerce?
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gforth webserver, why isn't forth used all over ecommerce?         


Author: gavino
Date: Aug 12, 2007 21:38

http://www.jwdt.com/~paysan/httpd-en.html

seems awesome, made in a few hours

I mean if forth is this powerful, why isn't it used all over the
place?
I read bit about colorforth being easy to enable DRIVERs for disk
drives? so it handles low level and high level?
This seems as interesting as haskell or common lisp!!!
forth on bare metal also seems liek dream come true?
Where are links on how to enable that?
43 Comments
Re: gforth webserver, why isn't forth used all over ecommerce?         


Author: jcomeau_ictx
Date: Aug 12, 2007 21:54

On Aug 12, 10:38 pm, gavino gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.jwdt.com/~paysan/httpd-en.html
>
> seems awesome, made in a few hours
>
> I mean if forth is this powerful, why isn't it used all over the
> place?

My opinion: because C, and even moreso, scripting languages like
Python and Perl make string handling easier than FORTH does.
> I read bit about colorforth being easy to enable DRIVERs for disk
> drives? so it handles low level and high level?
> This seems as interesting as haskell or common lisp!!!
> forth on bare metal also seems liek dream come true?
> Where are links on how to enable that?

There's a bootable ISO of colorForth downloadable from
http://sourceforge.net/projects/colorforth. I've never tried the disk
driver though, not having a disk around I felt OK about possibly
trashing.
no comments
Re: gforth webserver, why isn't forth used all over ecommerce?         


Author: John Passaniti
Date: Aug 12, 2007 22:10

gavino wrote:
> http://www.jwdt.com/~paysan/httpd-en.html
>
> seems awesome, made in a few hours
>
> I mean if forth is this powerful, why isn't it used all over the
> place?

Compare the functionality of a web server like Apache or IIS to this one
and then tell me how "powerful" it is. Like so many people here, you
completely gloss over the details and make apples-to-oranges comparisons.

You might also want to consider stop writing provocative messages in
comp.lang.forth and use that time to instead actually write some code.
Looking back, you've been asking various forms of essentially the same
question for about a year. Think how if instead of endlessly asking
"can Forth do this" how much you would have learned if you actually sat
down and wrote code.
no comments
Re: gforth webserver, why isn't forth used all over ecommerce?         


Author: gavino
Date: Aug 12, 2007 22:43

On Aug 12, 10:10 pm, John Passaniti h...@JapanIsShinto.com> wrote:
> gavino wrote:
>
>> seems awesome, made in a few hours
>
>> I mean if forth is this powerful, why isn't it used all over the
>> place?
>
> Compare the functionality of a web server like Apache or IIS to this one
> and then tell me how "powerful" it is. Like so many people here, you
> completely gloss over the details and make apples-to-oranges comparisons.
>
> You might also want to consider stop writing provocative messages in
> comp.lang.forth and use that time to instead actually write some code.
> Looking back, you've been asking various forms of essentially the same
> question for about a year. Think how if instead of endlessly asking
> "can Forth do this" how much you would have learned if you actually sat
> down and wrote code. ...
Show full article (0.96Kb)
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Re: gforth webserver, why isn't forth used all over ecommerce?         


Author: Bernd Paysan
Date: Aug 13, 2007 03:15

jcomeau_ictx wrote:
> On Aug 12, 10:38 pm, gavino gmail.com> wrote:
>> http://www.jwdt.com/~paysan/httpd-en.html
>>
>> seems awesome, made in a few hours
>>
>> I mean if forth is this powerful, why isn't it used all over the
>> place?
>
> My opinion: because C, and even moreso, scripting languages like
> Python and Perl make string handling easier than FORTH does.

But this example proves otherwise. This is string handling all from top to
bottom, and it's remarkable easy to do in Forth. There's another example,
the wiki forth HTML page generator, which all is string handling from top
to bottom, as well - if you like, you can compare it with the PHP code for
wikis like Dokuwiki.

The reason Forth isn't used for tasks like this is because people think it's
not suitable, and they therefore never give it a try. Or they forget that
they first have to write the (small) string library before it works.
Show full article (1.39Kb)
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Re: gforth webserver, why isn't forth used all over ecommerce?         


Author: Anton Ertl
Date: Aug 13, 2007 04:54

Bernd Paysan writes:
>proxy.fs, is given as example - this does something you can't do with any
>module provided by Apache - redirect apparently "internal" pages to
>external ones).

What's wrong with mod_alias and the Redirect directive?

#
# Redirect allows you to tell clients about documents which used to exist in
# your server's namespace, but do not anymore. This allows you to tell the
# clients where to look for the relocated document.
# Example:
# Redirect permanent /foo http://www.example.com/bar

We use quite a few Redirects in our Apache-based web server.

- anton
no comments
Re: gforth webserver, why isn't forth used all over ecommerce?         


Author: Jerry Avins
Date: Aug 13, 2007 05:59

gavino wrote:
> On Aug 12, 10:10 pm, John Passaniti > h...@JapanIsShinto.com> wrote:
>> gavino wrote:
>>> http://www.jwdt.com/~paysan/httpd-en.html
>>> seems awesome, made in a few hours
>>> I mean if forth is this powerful, why isn't it used all over the
>>> place?
>> Compare the functionality of a web server like Apache or IIS to this one
>> and then tell me how "powerful" it is. Like so many people here, you
>> completely gloss over the details and make apples-to-oranges comparisons.
>>
>> You might also want to consider stop writing provocative messages in
>> comp.lang.forth and use that time to instead actually write some code.
>> Looking back, you've been asking various forms of essentially the same
>> question for about a year. Think how if instead of endlessly asking
>> "can Forth do this" how much you would have learned if you actually sat
>> down and wrote code.
>
> What is a good forth for a beginner like me? ...
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Re: gforth webserver, why isn't forth used all over ecommerce?         


Author: John Passaniti
Date: Aug 13, 2007 07:26

Bernd Paysan wrote:
> BTW: Apache can do more if you plug in the many modules for it. A plain
> Apache without modules can't do anything more than my web server.

False.

First, Apache doesn't require inetd in order to handle communications,
so right there it has one capability your web server doesn't. And
that's not just basic communications, but support for efficiently
handling large numbers of connections.

Second, Apache knows (without any modules) how to support basic features
such as name-based hosting (that is, interpretation of the Host:
parameter to disambiguate between multiple sites hosted on a single IP
address) as well as a number of other features implied by HTTP 1.1.

Third, Apache knows (without any modules) how to deal with real-world
bugs in browsers and other user agents. A review of the source code
will illustrate the reality that just because a RFC says what the
standard is doesn't mean that real-world users are necessarily following
those standards. Lamentable, but that's the real world for you.
Show full article (1.99Kb)
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Re: gforth webserver, why isn't forth used all over ecommerce?         


Author: John Passaniti
Date: Aug 13, 2007 07:29

gavino wrote:
> What is a good forth for a beginner like me?
> I have access to an linux computer.

First answer: Gforth.

Second answer: It doesn't matter. Pick the first Forth you find in
your package manager and install that. The core of the language is
going to be the same. By the time you care about the differences,
you'll know what you need.
no comments
Re: gforth webserver, why isn't forth used all over ecommerce?         


Author: John Passaniti
Date: Aug 13, 2007 08:01

Bernd Paysan wrote:
> The reason Forth isn't used for tasks like this is because people think it's
> not suitable, and they therefore never give it a try. Or they forget that
> they first have to write the (small) string library before it works.

False.

Except in narrow cases where it makes sense, people don't use Forth for
tasks like this because there is no value to using Forth over any other
language. You want to write a trivial minimal webserver? The same kind
of minimalistic approach you took in Forth can be replicated in
virtually any other language. Except in most other languages, you won't
have to spend any time dealing with string handling primitives since
they are already there.

Most people who have never actually written a significant web
application (embedded or not) don't understand that the webserver itself
is perhaps the least interesting part of the system.
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