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Date: Aug 26, 2007 12:16
If you are interested in programming abstract strategy games, puzzles,
and a variety of other related applications (or you are just
interested in novel Forth applications), you might be interested in
"Axiom". Axiom is a universal game development system that works in
conjunction with the "Zillions Of Games" (tm) product. It is in the
form of a plug-in DLL engine for Zillions. Axiom has its own complete
Forth based scripting language as opposed to the built-in Lisp like
language included in the Zillions product. Axiom provides its own
search engine, allows the game AI to be customized, supports math, and
in general, allows a high degree of customized programming. Due to
the full power of Forth being available for game programming, Axiom
extends the range of games possible with the Zillions...
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Author: Jean-François MichaudJean-François Michaud Date: Aug 26, 2007 16:27
On Aug 26, 12:16 pm, dreamwa...@ yahoo.com wrote: > If you are interested in programming abstract strategy games, puzzles,
> and a variety of other related applications (or you are just
> interested in novel Forth applications), you might be interested in
> "Axiom". Axiom is a universal game development system that works in
> conjunction with the "Zillions Of Games" (tm) product. It is in the
> form of a plug-in DLL engine for Zillions. Axiom has its own complete
> Forth based scripting language as opposed to the built-in Lisp like
> language included in the Zillions product. Axiom provides its own
> search engine, allows the game AI to be customized, supports math, and
> in general, allows a high degree of customized programming. Due to
> the full power of Forth being available for game programming, Axiom
> extends the range of games possible with the Zillions product.
>
> You can find the Axiom development kit (which includes documentation)
> along with several Axiom based games at:
>
> http://www.zillions-of-games.com/cgi-bin/zilligames/submissions.cgi/4...
>
> Also, there is a yahoo group dedicated to Axiom: ...
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Author: Marcel HendrixMarcel Hendrix Date: Aug 27, 2007 11:00
dreamwafer@ yahoo.com writes Re: Announcement: Axiom, a Forth Based Universal Game Programming System
[..] > I am not affiliated with the Zillions product in any way. I'm a Forth
> enthusiast and Axiom has been a hobby project which I am offering to
> the public for free. I've been working on Axiom and the current set
> of Axiom based games for the past 1-1/2 years in my 'spare' time.
> Thank you for your interest.
Great idea! You paid attention to doumentation too, and your Forth seems
to really deserve that name (being interactive). Do you care to discuss
why it has
BTW, strange game player, Zillion :-) I tried it's chess, but it doesn't
even know when the game is over (I took its king after only 3 moves, but it
pretends not to notice).
It does know how to play tic-tac-toe, though (unfortunately, I do too).
-marcel
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Date: Aug 27, 2007 12:30
On Aug 27, 1:00 pm, m...@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) wrote:
> dreamwa...@ yahoo.com writes Re: Announcement: Axiom, a Forth Based Universal Game Programming System
> [..]
> >> I am not affiliated with the Zillions product in any way. I'm a Forth
>> enthusiast and Axiom has been a hobby project which I am offering to
>> the public for free. I've been working on Axiom and the current set
>> of Axiom based games for the past 1-1/2 years in my 'spare' time.
>> Thank you for your interest.
>
> Great idea! You paid attention to doumentation too, and your Forth seems
> to really deserve that name (being interactive). Do you care to discuss
> why it has
>
ForthScript is subroutine threaded and implemented in C++. I couldn't
see any way
to implement CREATE ... DOES> without dropping into assembly which I
didn't want to do.
This was discussed in the following thread:
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Author: Marcel HendrixMarcel Hendrix Date: Aug 27, 2007 21:41
dreamwafer@ yahoo.com writes Re: Announcement: Axiom, a Forth Based Universal Game Programming System
> As far as a unified stack, I'm not sure what you mean. ForthScript
> has both a data stack and a return stack.
[..]
But floating-point numbers are on the data stack, as 32-bit numbers.
IMHO, these are very unfortunate design decisions.
>> BTW, strange game player, Zillion :-) I tried it's chess, but it doesn't
>> even know when the game is over (I took its king after only 3 moves, but it
>> pretends not to notice).
> Hmm... It's Chess is pretty strong, especially considering it's a general game playing
> program. If you are able to make this happen again, please save the game (in a *.zsg file)
> and send it to me. I can then post it and have the Chess Guru's examine it.
I only tried the Demo version and didn't realize the best it can do is play
'Loser Chess'. Apparently the rules are quite different. Probably a great
idea in the context of a demo for an extensible system.
-marcel
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Date: Aug 28, 2007 04:31
On Aug 27, 11:41 pm, m...@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) wrote:
> But floating-point numbers are on the data stack, as 32-bit numbers.
> IMHO, these are very unfortunate design decisions.
Pardon my ignorance on this, but besides less stack juggling, what do
you see as the main advantages of having a separate floating point
stack?
So far, in my limited applications to game programming, I haven't run
into difficulties, but then I don't typically perfrom extensive mixed
mode calculations.
> I only tried the Demo version and didn't realize the best it can do is play
> 'Loser Chess'. Apparently the rules are quite different. Probably a great
> idea in the context of a demo for an extensible system.
Right, I forgot that the demo is 'Loser Chess'. I agree with your
rationale, although some objected to putting a 'Loser' game in the
demo.
-- Greg
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Author: Andrew HaleyAndrew Haley Date: Aug 28, 2007 08:29
> On Aug 27, 1:00 pm, m...@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) wrote:
>> dreamwa...@ yahoo.com writes Re: Announcement: Axiom, a Forth Based Universal Game Programming System
>> [..]
>> >>> I am not affiliated with the Zillions product in any way. I'm a Forth
>>> enthusiast and Axiom has been a hobby project which I am offering to
>>> the public for free. I've been working on Axiom and the current set
>>> of Axiom based games for the past 1-1/2 years in my 'spare' time.
>>> Thank you for your interest.
>>
>> Great idea! You paid attention to doumentation too, and your Forth seems
>> to really deserve that name (being interactive). Do you care to discuss
>> why it has
> ForthScript is subroutine threaded and implemented in C++. I
> couldn't see any way to implement CREATE ... DOES> without dropping
> into assembly which I didn't want to do.
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Date: Aug 28, 2007 08:52
On Aug 28, 11:29 am, Andrew Haley
wrote:
[On supporting CREATE .. DOES>]> Other people have done it. It's far from being impossible. I don't
> know enough about exactly how your threading scheme works to comment
> on how exactly to do it in your system.
> Your question was re "history and rationale for CREATE vs.
> and had nothing at all to do with unified stacks.
True enough, that reference was my response to part one of Marcel's
two part question:
>Do you care to discuss why it has
-- Greg
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Author: Andrew HaleyAndrew Haley Date: Aug 28, 2007 10:55
> On Aug 28, 11:29 am, Andrew Haley
> wrote:> [On supporting CREATE .. DOES>]
>> Other people have done it. It's far from being impossible. I don't
>> know enough about exactly how your threading scheme works to comment
>> on how exactly to do it in your system.
OK, that all looks pretty conventional. To implement CREATE .. DOES>,
your DOES> should modify the CFA of the most recently created word.
As as example, consider something like
: const create , does> @ ;
DOES> makes the CFA of the most recently created word point into the
middle of the list of CFAs inside CONST, and then DOES> exits from
CONST.
The list of CFAs in CONST looks like this, with "&" meaning the CFA of
the following word:
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Author: Marcel HendrixMarcel Hendrix Date: Aug 28, 2007 11:05
dreamwafer@ yahoo.com writes Re: Announcement: Axiom, a Forth Based Universal Game Programming System
> On Aug 27, 11:41 pm, m...@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) wrote:
>> But floating-point numbers are on the data stack, as 32-bit numbers.
>> IMHO, these are very unfortunate design decisions.
> Pardon my ignorance on this, but besides less stack juggling, what do
> you see as the main advantages of having a separate floating point
> stack?
Is less stack juggling not compelling enough?
Source code clarity: with a unified stack, you are never completely sure
that there is not a float involved somewhere, whereas with a separate
stack you simply write
: x ( adam bertha -- xantippe ) ( F: r -- cos{r} ) ... ;
Then there is efficiency: a separate stack works much faster when you
use the hardware FPU or SSE2 unit. Most fast Forths use a separate
FP stack, so your code can never be directly used on/ported to/checked
through them.
With a separate FP stack you switch to double or quad precision without
rewriting any code. (Say you want your Fractal generator upgraded to
256 bits with Julian Noble's ideas.)
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