Re: Australian Scientific method gone to church to find it's spiritual side with the web standards group WSG

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Re: Australian Scientific method gone to church to find it's spiritual side with the web standards group WSG

Group: aus.mediawatch · Group Profile
Author: James
Date: Aug 25, 2007 22:28

David Moss wrote:

> In article <46beaa17$0$22610$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-
> 01.iinet.net.au>, addinall@addinall.org writes...
>
>

>>"Tim" optushome.com.au> wrote in message
>>news:46762F31.7000102@optushome.com.au...
>>

>>>What is the difference between billboards and the web? The 1992 Disability
>>>Discrimination Act applies to websites following Maguire v SOCOG. Website
>>>accessibility relates to ramps on buildings for disabled wheelchair access
>>>and importantly for commercial organisations to Search Engine
>>>Optimisation, with valid code robots can easily index all your sites
>>>content. Your page only has minor html errors nothimg to stop a search
>>>engine, but it will fail every accessibility test.
>>>
>>>http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%%3A%%2F%%2Fwww.fcq.com.au%%2F
>>>
>>>I can see from your text size options on www.fcq.com.au that you are
>>>serious about accessibility, well done, but try not to shoot the messenger
>>>(Duh:-) who exposes errors in major University homepages, they should know
>>>better. The only Australian site to embed a flash file in the homepage was
>>>Bond University and it is totally inaccessible to a blind person using
>>>only a keyboard to navigate a site without Javascript and the Macromedia
>>>plugin for Flash files.
>>>
>>>You could not have read the entire text unless you viewed the page
>>>frequently (updated often) and also viewed the source code, but seeing as
>>>you used Microsoft FrontPage 5.0 to make your webpages, you might not
>>>appreciate what the html coding means? You pages could do with a lot more
>>>header tags, more keywords for search engines.
>>>
>>>You are not being forced into it unless someone takes action against you
>>>under the 1992 Act, but you are not a university offering IT courses
>>>either.
>>>
>>>You also need to use a

tag. It is convential for accessibility when using

to
>>>also use the alternative . In the <noembed> tag you could put <br /> >>>links to single graphics that are in the flash file por one large <br /> >>>panoramic picture. Then in the single picture file you could put a brief <br /> >>>description of only a few words in the image "alt".<br /> >>><br /> >>>A "longdesc" tag can also be included for the image which links to a <br /> >>>longer text description of the content or meaning of the images.<br /> >>><br /> >>><a href="http://www.hereticpress.com/Dogstar/Publishing/AustUni.html" rel="nofollow" class="url" target="_blank">http://www.hereticpress.com/Dogstar/Publishing/AustUni.html</a>#longdescexplain<br /> >>><br /> >>>Common problems I found in Australian University homepages just updated.<br /> >>><a href="http://www.hereticpress.com/Dogstar/Publishing/AustUni.html" rel="nofollow" class="url" target="_blank">http://www.hereticpress.com/Dogstar/Publishing/AustUni.html</a>#problems<br /> >>><br /> >>>Some Universities have spat the dummy over this review, but the best of <br /> >>>them with little to fear from an accessibility audit or review have <br /> >>>welcomed my work.</div> <div id="ab80832514_4" class="color2">>><br /> >>I'm glad to see Deakin passed. I did a lot of the accessibility work on<br /> >>those pages. When I left every page passed using the Bobby tool.<br /> >>I'm not familiar with "cynthis".<br /> >><br /> >>Cheers,<br /> >>Mark Addinall.<br /> >><br /> >></div> <div id="ab80832514_5" class="color3">>>>Tim<br /> >>><br /> >>><br /> >>><br /> >>>David Moss wrote:<br /> >>></div> <div id="ab80832514_6" class="color0">>>>>In article <4668BE0C.2050108@<a href="http://optushome.com.au" rel="nofollow" class="url" target="_blank">optushome.com.au</a>>, dogstar27<br /> >>>>@<a href="http://optushome.com.au" rel="nofollow" class="url" target="_blank">optushome.com.au</a> writes...<br /> >>>><br /> >>>><br /> >>>></div> <div id="ab80832514_7" class="color1">>>>>>Taking a look a one paragraph is inadequate, you are not correct to do an <br /> >>>>>and then evaluate a large body of work based on one paragraph, you would <br /> >>>>>have answers to other questions if you did look further.<br /> >>>>>Your two cents worth is not good value. Non judgmental language like <br /> >>>>>"Dur" to you too David, standarsd are not specified by me but then you <br /> >>>>>did not bother to find out what they were before replying, Dur</div> <div id="ab80832514_8" class="color0">>>>><br /> >>>><br /> >>>>I did actually read the entire text, but I thought it would be <br /> >>>>enlightening to focus on a small part of it.<br /> >>>><br /> >>>>I deliberately used provocative language (dur) within my reply to get you <br /> >>>>thinking about the provocative language in your own text.<br /> >>>><br /> >>>>If you feel 2c is too much to pay for my advice, feel free to pay in <br /> >>>>cash.<br /> >>>><br /> >>>>Why are you so interested in web site useability anyway?<br /> >>>>What is so different about websites that does not also apply to <br /> >>>>billboards, newspapers, paintings and pamphlets?<br /> >>>><br /> >>>>This is a serious question. Although I spend a fair bit of effort trying <br /> >>>>to make my own websites accessible, I'd probably spit the dummy and do <br /> >>>>them all in Flash if someone tried to force me into it.<br /> >>>><br /> >>>>Take a look at a site I did at<br /> >>>><a href="http://www.fcq.com.au" rel="nofollow" class="url" target="_blank">www.fcq.com.au</a><br /> >>>><br /> >>>>There is a Flash animation on that page with no alt-tag.<br /> >>>>What do you suggest I do to make the animation accessible to blind <br /> >>>>people? Look at the animation carefully and think about the imagery and <br /> >>>>the way it is targeted at the feelings and emotions of those who view it. <br /> >>>>If a picture paints a thousand words, a Flash screen movie may require an <br /> >>>>entire book. How big should the alt-tag be to convey the same information <br /> >>>>to a blind person as a sighted person extracts in the few seconds it pans <br /> >>>>across the scene?<br /> >>>><br /> >>>><br /> >>>></div> <div id="ab80832514_9" class="color3">>>></div> <div id="ab80832514_10" class="color2">>><br /> >></div> <div id="ab80832514_11" class="color1">> <br /> > <br /> > Whatever that thing at<br /> > <a href="http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%%3A%%2F%%2Fwww.fcq.com.au%%2F" rel="nofollow" class="url" target="_blank">http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%%3A%%2F%%2Fwww.fcq.com.au%%2F</a><br /> > <br /> > is, it finds things like "<center> is not a valid tag", or "height is <br /> > not a valid attribute". I'm afraid I don't believe it.<br /> > <br /> > Certainly I could probably pay more attention to the alt tags on some of <br /> > my images, but others are mnemonic icons that have explanatory text next <br /> > to them. They are designed to help sighted people only and are an <br /> > unnecessary distraction to visually impaired people.<br /> > <br /> > Finally, although it may appear I use Frontpage to design the site, <br /> > behind the scenes a lot of what you see in the source code is straight <br /> > from PHP. The header, the left and right columns and the footer are all <br /> > generated by PHP scripts that are wrapped inside a Frontpage generated <br /> > shell. A look at the source code will show things like:<br /> > <br /> > <br /> > <br /> > and strange stuff like that. The idea is that people with little <br /> > training can maintain the site using intuitive tools like Frontpage, but <br /> > the look, feel and accessibility of the site is maintained <br /> > automatically. <br /> > <br /> > In fact you could say the way I wrote the fcq site raises accessibility <br /> > to another level by allowing people without special web authoring skills <br /> > to maintain the site.<br /> > <br /> > The idea is that when I am finished with the site design, they won't <br /> > need me any more. Not good from an entrepreneurial viewpoint I know, but <br /> > thats probably why I'm not rich.<br /> > </div> <div id="ab80832514_12" class=""><br /> <center> is not a valid tag height is<br /> not a valid attribute" Centre is depreciated html and can now be in the <br /> stylesheets rules, height is depreciated except for images.<br /> I'm not rich either. Automatic tools to make webpages are improving but <br /> many still do not produce valid code, it may look fine but validation is <br /> more for webbots to navigate the page than humans.<br /> <br /> Tim</div> </div> </td></tr> <tr><td align="right"> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="2" border="0"> <tr><td colspan="9" align="right"><a href="http://www.nnseek.com/e/aus.mediawatch/australian_scientific_method_gone_to_church_to_find_70184194t.html#comments" class="rose_10">no comments</a></td></tr> <tr valign="center"><td><img src="http://www.nnseek.com/img/digman.gif" width="16" height="14"></td><td><a class="rose_10" href="http://digg.com/submit?phase=2&URL=http://www.nnseek.com/e/aus.mediawatch/australian_scientific_method_gone_to_church_to_find_70184194m.html">diggit!</a></td><td> </td><td><img src="http://www.nnseek.com/img/delicious.gif" width="18" height="18"></td><td><a class="rose_10" href="http://del.icio.us/post?url=http://www.nnseek.com/e/aus.mediawatch/australian_scientific_method_gone_to_church_to_find_70184194m.html&title=Re: Australian Scientific method gone to church to find it's spiritual side with the web standards group WSG">del.icio.us!</a></td><td> </td><td><img src="http://www.nnseek.com/img/reddithead.gif" width="18" height="18"></td><td><a class="rose_10" href="http://reddit.com/submit?url=http://www.nnseek.com/e/aus.mediawatch/australian_scientific_method_gone_to_church_to_find_70184194m.html&title=Re: Australian Scientific method gone to church to find it's spiritual side with the web standards group WSG">reddit!</a></td></tr></table> </td></tr> </table> </td></tr> <tr><td align="center"><img src="http://www.nnseek.com/img/razdel.gif"><img src="http://www.nnseek.com/img/b.gif" width="93%" height="1px"></td></tr> <tr><td align="center"> <script type="text/javascript"> </script> <script type="text/javascript" src="http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/show_ads.js"> </script> </td></tr> </table> </td>  </tr> </table>  </div> <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" > <tr><td bgcolor="775A6E"><img src="http://www.nnseek.com/img/null.gif" height="2" width="100%"></td></tr> <tr><td bgcolor="D4C9C5"><img src="http://www.nnseek.com/img/null.gif" height="2" width="100%"></td></tr> <tr><td bgcolor="D4C9C5" align="center"><a href="http://clickaider.com/" title="Tracked by ClickAider ClickAider"><img src="http://hit.clickaider.com/i/button-36.gif" border="0"/></a></td></tr> <tr><td bgcolor="D4C9C5"><img src="http://www.nnseek.com/img/null.gif" height="2" width="100%"></td></tr> </table>   <script language="javascript"></script><script language="javascript1.1"></script><script language="javascript1.2"></script><script language="javascript1.3"></script><script language="javascript"></script><noscript> <a href="http://u8306.45.mytrix.com/cnt?cid=830645&f=4&p=0" target="_blank"> <img src="http://u8306.45.mytrix.com/cnt?cid=830645&p=0" alt='mytrix' border='0' width=1 height=1 > </a>